CAB The Blackening: Dewayne Perkins

Julie Harris Oliver: [00:00:00] The Catch A Break podcast is the insider's guide to breaking into and navigating the entertainment industry with me, Julie Harris Oliver Project Greenlight is a do you follow show now Streaming on Max about the making of an independent film by an emerging director on season four of Catch A Break.

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This is the Catch or Break podcast, the Insider's guide to breaking into and navigating the entertainment industry. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. You can find us@catcherbreakpodcast.com and all the social media at Catcher Break Pod, as well as all the podcast places. I have another interview for you from the Blackening.

This time with creator, [00:01:00] writer, co-producer star Dewayne Perkins, who played the role of Dewayne in this movie. Dewayne Perkins is an Emmy nominated American comedian, writer, producer, and actor. Some of his other writing and producing credits include NBC's Brooklyn nine Nine. Netflix's The Break With Michelle Wolf.

Peacock Saved by the Bell and the Amber Ruffin Show to which he was nominated for an Emmy as an actor. He has appeared on Peacock, saved by the Bell. Netflix's the Upshaw's, as well as the Blackening - a feature he wrote and co-produced that premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival and is playing in theaters now.

We talked about the success of this film, the deeper revolution that it is this moment in his life, and what's the secret sauce to success? Settle in. Have a listen.

Dewayne Perkins, thank you so much for coming on catch a break.

Dewayne Perkins: Yeah, thank you for having me.

Julie Harris Oliver: It's so nice to meet you. First of all, I should say congratulations on the Blackening.

What I wanna say, what a triumph. [00:02:00] It's incredible. It's doing so well. I know it's being received. Great. How are you feeling right now? It's been open for not even quite a week.

Dewayne Perkins: Yeah. It, it, it feels good. Like, I think there's like two prongs or there's like a, a very personal, just, very happy that like the end of the journey, is still as positive as the beginning.

So that's like, just very heartwarming. And then there's like a, like a business aspect side of it where I'm like, oh, I've never done this. Like, this is so interesting to just like see the process and kind of, Gaining a new, like litmus as to like this part of the business. That part is like exciting but nervous.

Just being like, oh, I dunno, like what this means. Like, like what a, and especially because of like the strike and kinda like where we are. I'm just curious to know like what this movie being out means for the future of, yeah.

Julie Harris Oliver: So is this the first time you've been involved to this extent and in this [00:03:00] part of it, like, are you watching box office numbers?

Dewayne Perkins: Yeah, so this is the, this is the first film I ever wrote, the first film that I was in. And so I'm just like, and I generally as a person, I love information. I'm just like, oh, like I love figuring out like how a system works. I was a very math and science oriented child. And so in this, in the creative spaces, I'm like, oh yeah, I recognize and love the creative aspect, but also.

How does the creativity exist within these specific systems that are, that gets to dictate how and when. Yeah, it all works. And so that's the part I'm like, okay, I have to learn that part as well because the creativity doesn't come unless there, there's that part to it as well.

Julie Harris Oliver: So you're doing kind of the trial by fire, the business part of it?

Dewayne Perkins: Yes. I'm just like, okay. Okay. So, so this is what it means for a movie to be profitable. This is this, this is this. Just saying like, ok, I'm seeing kinda what, where the markers of [00:04:00] success are because it, it, it seems so drastically different depending on the film.

Julie Harris Oliver: And how would you describe, what you've learned about what those markers are?

Dewayne Perkins: It, it seems a little illogical to me personally, so that's why I'm trying to gain more information. But it really is, it comes down to just like profit and how much money is being put in versus how much money is coming back. So that part is just like interesting because it's all relative to like the price point.

Yeah. Which is something that I, I just learned to be like, okay, and now I can see how this movie can make millions and millions of dollars and still. A flop because of how much money was put into it. And then a movie can make not as much money, but because it was made for a lot less, that is still seen as like profitable next to each other.

Which is interesting. That's so strange.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. Cuz you have what it costs to make the movie. You have all the marketing of it, and it's gone through several [00:05:00] hands. I know it was, financed by m MRC , produced by CatchLight Studios being distributed by Lions Gate. Let's touch on that for a minute, because Lionsgate came in at the end to distribute it.

You didn't really have a, like a studio overlord while you were making it. So what, what was that experience like?

Dewayne Perkins: It still felt like M R C functioned as a studio as far as I would say in terms of like the partnership and kind of the, who gets to kind of like dictate or like give notes. So there was still, from my point of view, like people that we had to appease in some way, creatively, Yeah, I mean like they're like paying for the movie, so they're like, Hey, we think this is a thing.

You can't just be like, no. They can ask some

Julie Harris Oliver: questions, I

Dewayne Perkins: guess. Yeah, like. Other voices to consider was, new for me. Cuz I come from like improv, sketch, standup, where I'm writing a [00:06:00] lot just from my own point of view. And then in, in, in television, the jobs that I've had was always me working to, further someone else's vision and I'm just like adding my thought versus this was so much from me.

So that was a new experience to have a clear vision and then, Collaborating to be like, okay, so this is going to be out. It's now outside of me and it's a bigger system that is now at play. But I would say because M R C was good creative partners, they really allowed us the freedom to just like do what we wanted to do.

And they were, they were very open to listening. To like the reasoning behind what we wanted to do. And I think because of that, we were able to make a successful film that felt authentic to what, to, to the original vision that we had.

Julie Harris Oliver: How is that just for you to make that shift from, I'm gonna add [00:07:00] my contribution, or I'm writing for myself, or I'm all doing the creative thing to make that shift to allow in other collaborators, because I know like just notes are hard, right?

To take in and think about and and adjust your creative vision. What did you kind of have to do personally? To get to that collaborating space?

Dewayne Perkins: Well, I'm, I, I feel very, naturally a fan of collaboration. Most of the things that I've done were very ensemble based, like improv and Sketch. It's all about.

The ensemble, it's all about figuring out what we can make together. So I don't have an aversion to collaboration generally. I would say the thing that was shocking was kind of the position that the writer plays and features versus in tv. Oh yeah. Tv. The writer is like the top, the like, they're the creator, the show runner, like they have a certain position where their opinion is prioritized, whereas in writing, I realize often the writer and features the writer is [00:08:00] very seen of, of service where you, you do a thing and then that script is taken and given to people and then you're kind of like, thank you so much for the attribution we got.

Realizing that like that is the position that the writer plays and features. That was shocking to me. Cause I was like, but I know the most about this.

Julie Harris Oliver: Well, and also you were there, which doesn't always happen.

Dewayne Perkins: Yeah. And so that was something that, that I feel is unique, just being a multi hyphenate and being able to kind of wear different hats in, in that space.

So, I do think if I was not in it and a producer, the experience would've been very different. So I'm still very grateful that I got the opportunity to still be in the room to. Continue to kind of push the vision that I had. And then having partners like Tracy and Tim who were very much like, yes, do not ever feel not empowered to speak up, like, this is still yours.

We understand [00:09:00] how writers usually function. We're not doing that here. You like, this is your baby. Like, we get it. So having those partners, I think really painted the experience in a much more positive light than I assumed it would be. Just knowing. The kind of power that writers have and features.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. Okay. Can we go way back and we ask everyone on the show, what was your very first job in the business and how did you get it?

Dewayne Perkins: Hmm. What would I consider my first job? I would consider my first job. Would, would, would, would you say acting, writing, like which, which part? Just like, like first my first job period.

Julie Harris Oliver: When you first. When you first felt like, oh, I've been hired to do a creative thing as a job.

Dewayne Perkins: Yes. So like creatively, I think my very first, I really wanna like nail like, get this right. Cause Im, I, now I'm like curious like what would I consider my first creative [00:10:00] job? I'd say my first creative job was I was hired to be an interior designer.

For, this company called Potbelly. There, it's a sandwich shop. Okay. And in Chicago, I was in art school and I was working as a sandwich artist at a restaurant and they put up a, a sign in the break room, been like, Hey, the corporate, like the higher up to look, hire like a young, cool, hip like artist. For a project.

And I was like, well, I'm young, I'm cool, I'm hip. Hired me. And so they hired me to, redesign, a bunch of restaurants across the country to like do research on the places and just like find, like who are. Suggest like how to, like where to hang it. So that, like, I felt like that was like the first time I was like being paid to like be creative, to be like, Hey, you have a vision.

Here's money to like, go figure out how, what to do with that. [00:11:00] And then specifically within like comedy, I think being hired to work at Second City was like one of those moments to be like, okay, like I'm being paid to specifically do comedy. And then industry-wide, like bigger. I would say my first job was, While and out on MTV with Nick Cannon.

That was like right after Second City, and that was like my first like industry job. And I was like, oh, I'm on tv. I made it. And then my first writing job was the break with Michelle Wolf on Netflix.

Julie Harris Oliver: I love that your first job was a sandwich shop. Designing That was not what I expected.

Dewayne Perkins: I've had a life,

Julie Harris Oliver: you can do all the things.

Dewayne Perkins: Yeah. I mean, like I, I do think just generally art is so connective, and all of the things that I've done kind of feed into each other. Yeah,

Julie Harris Oliver: for sure. Now, I've heard this story several times that you did the Blackening as a sketch with three-peat and now it's a movie, and I haven't heard a lot of details in [00:12:00] between.

So can you talk us through how it went from, cause it took, what, five years from the sketch to the movie coming out? Yeah. Is that right?

Dewayne Perkins: Yeah. And it was, I wrote the original sketch in 2016. Oh. So I was doing okay. Yeah. So I was doing a show at Second City called Afrofuturism. It was like their first like all black like sketch variety show.

And we needed an opening scene for that show. So I wrote the black name. It was then called Horror Story, and I wrote it for that show. We did it. It was a hoot. And so we kept doing it. It became like the official opening for that show. And then, second City did a theatrical production in DC at Willie Mammoth called The Black Side of the Moon, and I was in that show.

So that sketch then became the opening for that show. And then from there, three, Pete got a, web series deal with Comedy Central. So we had to pitch sketches and I was like, oh, I would love us to do this [00:13:00] sketch because I, it, it has only been on stage where, and it was a hit. Yeah. And so like it, when it was on stage, I was like, oh, like there's just not enough.

Like if we film it, we could really nail the tone. Cause on stage it's just like, Pretending and like we're in a house, you have like lights at best. So when I pitched it to Comedy Center, they were like, yes, this is the, the, the first sketch that we're gonna film. So then we filmed it, it was a dream to film.

And then they put it out and it went viral. And it got I think like 15 million views in like a couple days on Facebook. Wow. And then on. YouTube, it was like hundreds of thousands. Then it started being posted everywhere. And then Tracy Oliver, she just. She saw it. Yeah. And then she called me and said, Hey, this should be a movie.

But yeah, she called the theater that three pe had our, our show at. She got my information. She called us and was like, Hey, I think this should be a [00:14:00] film. Who wrote it? Three people was like, Dewayne wrote it. This is his sketch. And she was like, okay. So. Partnered with Tim Story and we took it out and I remember that was the first pitch I ever took out.

And there was nine pitches set up and the day before the first pitch, they were all canceled. And I was like, what is happening? And I was so anxious and I was like, and wait. All of them canceled? Yes. And I was like, something's, why are we not doing these pictures no more? Yeah. So then I think like two days went by where, where I was like, what is happening?

Oh my God. And then I got a call from the producer being like, oh, no, no, no. Like there, there, there was just like an offer before we had to do it. They just wanted buy it.

Julie Harris Oliver: Like, don't worry, we sold it before you ever had to pitch it.

Dewayne Perkins: Literally never pitched it. Not a single bitch. Hey, Marcie just said, okay, we see the package, we saw the sketch.

This is enough. Okay, give it to us. So [00:15:00] then, yeah. Wow. Then it, wow. And then, it went into development. We went in, kind of showed, like, told them like what it would be. They said, great. Go do it. Then we did it.

Julie Harris Oliver: Amazing. Amazing.

Dewayne Perkins: It is. It's kind of crazy in hindsight looking at it, she'll be like, wow, this really worked out.

Yeah,

Julie Harris Oliver: I think it's worked out just fine. So then going from that, I just gotta ask, how did it feel to be, and this is the one I can't get over, how did it feel to be at the Apollo screening this

Dewayne Perkins: movie? Oh man, that was, okay. So like kinda the whole process similar to. Every stab. I'm just like, what is happening?

How did we get here? What, what's happening right now? And the Apollo specifically was like one of those moments, like the Apollo, Kiki Palmer, like just like kind of all of it. The culmination of [00:16:00] this project, I like, I, I still think I'm like processing it because it has been like so positive. In a way that's like shocking, because as a person I'm pretty like chill and low key and I'm just like, you know, what would happen will happen.

I'm very open to like positive, negative. There's balance in life. Yeah. Yeah. And for this project, it's just been so sick, significantly positive that it's, I'm, I'm just kinda like shocked. Just very grateful. Getting to rub the, the stone. It. Was one of the best moments of my life so far. So, yeah, I, I'm still just kind of gagged by it.

I'm just like, what?

Julie Harris Oliver: I mean, it, it feels big, it feel, and I, I've just met you, but it, it feels to me like this may be one of those moments where it's like a before and after, you know, like, yeah. Everything changed.

Dewayne Perkins: Yeah. Yeah. Even within like the film being out [00:17:00] for like a week, I went to this like party and there were so many people just be like, Hey, I saw your movie, like, congrats.

And I was, and I was with three friends, and it happened like the first couple times we were like, that's that's so cool. Like, what? That's crazy. And then it kept happening and then it kept happening and then I, I was, was like, okay, I'm trying to stay pretty grounded, but, This is crazy, right? And they're like, and so like even it's already been like a shift in small ways.

I'm just so shocked by, maybe that's something I gotta work through, through therapy, that my expectations are always so low, but I'm just like, you know, I dunno. If you don't expect crazy things, you can't be disappointed. And now I'm like, I should have expected more because this is crazy.

Julie Harris Oliver: It's so wonderful.

Now this film is so funny. I just laughed the whole time. It's also so scary [00:18:00] and I also know it's, it's deeper than that. Right? You were really confronting, I think a lot of things with this film and I'd love it if you could talk about that a little bit.

Dewayne Perkins: Yeah. It's, it's very layered. Because like on the surface, it, the purpose is just, Fine.

It's entertainment. Yeah. Like it's an entertaining movie. We did not have a goal to like statement specifically about black people. This, this. We just wanted to make an entertaining movie that had a bunch of black people in it, which inherently became a statement because that's not a thing that happens often.

And so because we knew that like, oh, this act within itself is just new, therefore it's going to say something, it was impossible not to have said something. It was impossible not to have deeper meanings because, Just by allowing these characters in particular to be [00:19:00] as unapologetically themselves is an act of like, Revolution and be like, oh, like we're like doing a thing.

Even like allowing like a black queer lead to like just exist. There were just so many ways in which I and Tracy have consumed media, and we wanted to attack this in a way in where we saw blackness as universal, that we were not creating something niche. We were creating an entertaining movie that everybody co.

Watch with very specific characters. And because we have a certain lived experience, we were able to imbue these characters with, with that, which made them feel real, which made people be invested in whether they die or not. And. And in doing so, it also showed a lot. We were not concerned with like telling where you're like, we don't have to be like, black people are different.

Like you see seven black people being different. That's enough. Like [00:20:00] we're doing it like just by existing in this way that feels unfiltered. And so yeah, it was mainly just us wanting to have fun, wanting to show black people in a range of ways to really push. That we are not the same, that we really are universal, that similar to like queerness and be like, if you just allow people to do the thing without biases, they can do anything like this is manmade.

All of these biases, all of this. We did that, so just stop. Made it up.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think just the leaning into it and the specificity just made it all so relatable. We know all these people. We love all these people. Like you did it. Good job.

Dewayne Perkins: Thanks. That feels very good. I'm, I'm very happy that a lot of people have really understood what we were trying to do.

Cause I, I, I do think that there is this limitation within [00:21:00] media that there's just so few data points as to like the kind of like black horror comedies. Like even in conversations, it's always like, scary movie and get out. And why are those the two data points? Cause that's all there is. Like there just hasn't been enough.

So being able to create something that feels like it's adding to that instead of just regurgitating what's already out there is like, for me so fulfilling and makes me feel like, oh, I'm, I, this is like the start of my like creative, artistic legacy, which is very cool. Cause I have not felt that till right now.

Yeah, you are

Julie Harris Oliver: in the cannon.

So I've, we have a couple minutes left, but I have two questions I wanna throw at you. One would be, what is your favorite memory of making this film? And the other one would be, what advice do you have for people who are trying to do what you do? Go,

Dewayne Perkins: Outside of the Apollo, I would [00:22:00] say, TIFF was kind of mind blowing because up until that time, I've never associated.

What we were doing kind of with the prestige of film festivals. Mm-hmm. I just kind of from the outside, so that's Toronto. Yeah. So from the outside looking in, I was just like, oh yeah, like we're just making our cute little movie, we're gonna do our thing. But those spaces always felt very, like just homogeneous in a sense of like, oh yeah, like black gay people aren't there doing stuff.

Right. And so for. For the film to be seen in that kind of light. There was also kind of a, a shift in my career where there was a level of prestige that I just did not as know that I, that would be associated to this film. And I love, like I have my opinion and I think that they're very strong and people can't change them.

Like I, I know what I feel. So for the industry to [00:23:00] actively agree. But yeah, we also think it's good. I was like, oh, okay, cool. And then Midnight Madness. That was the first time I've ever seen a theater feel like a sporting event. It was like a pious, there was like beach balls. I was like, I've never experienced mo like theater.

In this way. And so it kind of just showed me like a new way to consume art and I was obsessed with it. I said, yeah, this was like a concert, like this is how movies should be. So that was like one of the best moments of this whole process. And then to answer the second question, any advice I would give, It's kind of like something that I think was very helpful for me is recognizing what I could do that nobody else could, and then leaning into that.

So the idea, I think, similar to my perception of like the Toronto Film Festival from the outside, and when you don't see [00:24:00] yourself, you start to think, this is not made for me. This is gonna be too hard. Like there's not a roadmap for me to do that. And at some point in my career I realized that that was the freeing part of being like, okay, if there's no roadmap, I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want.

I'm going to do this, gonna, then I'm gonna pivot, I'm gonna do this, then I'm gonna do that. Like there's no. If, if, if there's no rubric for me, that means I am unlimited. I can just do it as I see fit for myself. And so I do feel my journey is very specific to me, so it's very hard to, to be like, just do what I did.

I'm like, that's, that's not gonna work. Nope. And so I would say to kind of, I have the same mindset that I did when I was doing it, which is I am me. No one else is me. No one else can do what I can do specifically. Nobody has had the combination of the lived experiences that, that I have. Nobody have [00:25:00] the exact skillset that I have, and kind of knowing that that was my power and leaning into that, like I don't necessarily, like, I don't cold switch anymore.

Like I just don't do any of the things that I felt was needed of me. Because I recognize in these spaces, they need me. Like it's a, like, it's, it, it's, it's a back and forth. Like it's not just me asking for things, it's me creating art so that they can make profit. Like this is also a collaboration. And then, and recognizing like your worth and your, like, what you bring to that.

Collaboration, I think is essential so that you can move without fear. Cause I think fear is the antithesis of art. You're just, you're not creating in your fullness. So I think like that is the advice that I would give is like figuring out exactly how you can be your strongest self and. Retain that. It's so like basic, but like [00:26:00] confidence, like actual confidence, like, just like being confident in the things that you do.

Like I didn't know that like writing that sketch would be a movie years later, but I was confident I could write a sketch. I was like, I know what sketch is. I write sketch, so I'm gonna write this sketch. Also just doing, doing things. I think changes a lot and that speaks back to the fear where I think a lot of fear stops people from like doing the thing.

Cause they're judging the thing. They're like, is this good enough? And I just think that we are much harder on ourselves than the industry like need us to be. Things are not good. I always tell people like, don't compare yourself to the person doing it the best. Compare yourself to the person doing it the worst because they're doing it and it's not good.

They're still doing it, like, and they're still doing it. Like, who's to say like, what's good and bad? Like that is so objective and the, and the difference from some person doing it and it's bad is somebody doing it and it's not, is that they're doing it. So just do it and then [00:27:00] learn as you go. It

Julie Harris Oliver: struck me when you said, I don't code switch anymore.

And you as a brush off statement, that's, that's fucking huge what you just said.

Dewayne Perkins: Yeah. Like I've sold like TV shows, like in a durag. Just be like, yeah man, hey, this is what it, this is what it is. Like you're hiring me cuz I have a voice. I have a skillset that you need. Yeah. Why would I change that? Yeah.

Yeah. There's no purpose.

Julie Harris Oliver: Wonderful. Yay. Dewayne Perkins, thank you so much and congratulations on the film on this moment, on everything. I cannot wait to see the rest of your career.

Dewayne Perkins: Thank you so much. This was a pleasure.

Julie Harris Oliver: This has been Catch a Break. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. I'd like to thank our guest, Dewayne Perkins for this conversation.

And special thanks to kru v.com, a dynamic platform that connects people to productions worldwide. Please check out our website at catch or break. podcast.com and follow us on all the social media. Catch A Break is produced in partnership with Cat Light Studios and the other 50%. Our theme music mantra for a struggling artist was composed by Andrew Jocelyn.

Thanks for [00:28:00] listening. Be sure to mark your calendars for July 13th. That's when Project Green Light and our Project Greenlight season starts dropping. I hope this helps you to catch a break.