EP 408: The Costume Designer and Hair Stylist
Julie Harris Oliver: [00:00:00] This is the Catch A Break podcast, the insider's guide to breaking into and navigating the entertainment industry. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. You can find us at CatchaBreakpodcast.com and all the social media places at Catch A Break Pod, as well as all the podcast places. The presenting sponsor of season four of Catch A Break is Santa Clarita Studios a full service independent studio featuring 35 sound stages, an amazing new back lot featuring a New York and LA downtown street with interiors and an alley fully furnished production office space and suite style executive offices along with post-production space.
Dedicated to providing an attentive and personally tailored experience for all of their clients. Santa Clarita Studios offers rentals and services to meet any need, any budget. Find them atsantaclaritastudios.com. We are continuing our Project Greenlight series where we talk to the [00:01:00] cast and crew of Gray Matter and get the real behind the scenes of the behind the scenes.
We are dropping new episodes every day. So if you wanna start at the beginning, go back and start with episode 4 0 1. In this episode, I sat down with Rhonda O'Neal, the hair stylist, and Rahima Yoga, the wardrobe designer. Let me just say, it is a miracle that even took this job, considering the phone call from the UPM seemed so suspicious, but I'll let them explain.
Okay. Have a listen.
Welcome to Catch a Break. I'm here today with Rhonda O'Neal and Rahima Yoba. Rhonda O'Neal is the founder of Beyond the Combs Academy, located in the heart of la. She, along with her many amazing instructors, help prepare others, especially people of color, to work in Hollywood. Not only does the Academy help prepare others, but it also teaches continual educational classes to learn how to work easily with textured hair and the blending of correct.
Rhonda is also the author of Beyond the Combs, a Celebrity Hairstylist Guide to Success. It's her story from Houston to Hollywood. She's been a mentor and has spoken on [00:02:00] several panels in schools. After following in her mother's footsteps as a hairstylist, she never dreamed she would be here. Rhonda has worked on some of the biggest productions such as Pirates of the Caribbean, Indiana Jones, Nightmare on Elm Street, and shows such as Modern Family, Brooklyn 99, NCIS LA, the Upshaw's Reno 9 1 1, just to name a few.
Some of her personal clients have been Solange, Andre Brower, Condoleeza Rice, and others. Rhonda has been a member of Local 706 Hairstylist and Makeup Artist Union since 2003, and for two terms, she was their hair craft President. Welcome, Rhonda.
Rhonda O'Neal: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me here.
Julie Harris Oliver: We also have Rahima Yoba.
She combines artistry and attention to detail to the costume she creates for feature films and television productions. Bringing both the writer and director's vision to life is a collaborative process that inspires her passion for design. Shortly after graduating from New York's prestigious Fiorello H. LaGuardia High School of Music and Art, and the Performing Arts.
Hello, fame! Rahima began her costume [00:03:00] journey in the film and TV industries lending her first gig on the hit TV series, New York Undercover. She became fascinated with the art of telling stories through costumes. Currently, she's creating costumes for the Sterling Affairs, the FX Limited series about the controversial former owner of the Los Angeles Clippers, the six part series will star at O'Neal as Donald Sterling Lawrence Fishburn is Doc Rivers and Jackie Weaver as Shelly Sterling Raheem's. Television credits also include the neighborhood, none of the Above Empire and the True Crime Series unsolved the murders of Tupac and the Notorious BIG.
Her film credits include Gray Matter, Project Greenlight, and Uncorked the feature directorial debut from Insecure Showrunner Prentice Penny. Raheem's, most recent action packed thriller end of the road starring Queen Latifa and Chris Ludacris. Bridges will air this September on Netflix. She's based in LA and is a member of the costume Designer's Guild Local 892. She's represented by United Talent Agency. Welcome, Rahima.
Rahima Yoba: Thank you for having me.
Julie Harris Oliver: So what I'm gonna ask both of you, first of all, which is what [00:04:00] we always do, is what was your first job in this business and how did you get it? And I'll start with Rhonda.
Rhonda O'Neal: Oh wow. Thank you again so much for having me here. My first job was Access Hollywood, another actor.
She was one of my clients and she referred Sean Robinson from Access Hollywood to my salon, and I started doing her on set, on red carpets. Every red carpet there is from the Oscars to the Grammys. And I didn't realize how wonderful that was and how blessed I was to have that be in that position. Now that Instagram is out, everybody wants to do it.
So, but I started there. She invited me to the studio to work and I worked with her for eight years and that's how I got my days to into the union. The rest is history.
Julie Harris Oliver: So you were working with a salon and didn't, weren't thinking about, let me get into film and tv.
Rhonda O'Neal: Not at all. I didn't even know what it was. I was getting writers, [00:05:00] producers, and couple, couple, few actresses and, Garcel Bufe actually, she referred Sean Roberton to me and I, , I was like, what is this? Why am I leaving my salon and working in on set is in interrupting my day? actually because I had three kids remember, so I'm having to go do clients at 5:30 in the morning. That are normally eight o'clock clients. And then I had to feed it over there to access Hollywood for 8:30.
And the good thing is they, they worked half a day in entertainment news. So then I ran and picked up my kids, went home, dropped them off. go back to the salon. So I guess that's why I, my like, oh my God, what is this? So it it, it was good for me though. ,
Julie Harris Oliver: How long did you do both of those jobs before you figured, oh, I can just do this entertainment business full-time?
Rhonda O'Neal: After we bought our house [00:06:00] off of those checks, I said, this is not a bad thing to do. Like, this is working out, it's working out. , let me do this. And . So it, no, it, and I see some of my clients to this day and they're always side eyeing me, so, oh well , sorry. No, I, Hollywood called . It really did, and it's been, it's been a great ride though. It's been a great ride.
Julie Harris Oliver: That's great. Okay, Rahima, how about you? What was your first job and how did you get it?
Rahima Yoba: My first job was on New York Undercover in 1994. I was about 22 and my brother was on the show. He was starring in the show and it was about a black cop and a Puerto Rican, , detective, rather, from New York and I was working at a, I think I was working at Century 21, the clothing store, and I was just so miserable and I was like, I can't do this anymore. He's like, why don't you come down and just hang out on set? [00:07:00] And I was on set and I was like, what is this ? Because I had done like music videos when I was a little younger.
Like I used to go skip school and do hip hop dancing and hip hop music videos when it was just about hip hop, but not video vixen. So I understood the art of like filming and behind the scenes. But to see like a film set, like I had never been on a TV show set or a film set. So I was just like so fascinated.
And he was like, well, what kind of job do you wanna do? I said, I don't know, maybe I'll work in the art department. Cuz I went to music and art high school and I studied visual art. I didn't realize that the art department designed the sets. They didn't spend their days painting, which is what I thought the art department was.
Yeah. So I started off. Intern and a PA in the art department on New York Undercover. But then there was kind of nothing for me to do because I wasn't in the union. So the wardrobe department needed help and they would just see me kind of hanging around, playing on my Game Boy all day. . [00:08:00] And I started working with Wardrobe, so I started off as an intern, then I became a pa, and then it's a lot easier to join the union in New York.
So I was able to join the customers union pretty quickly, like I think 30 or 60 days after. Oh, and then you just worked your way up to become a costume designer. That's, no, it didn't kind of work out like that. I, I, I just wanted a better job. I was very like, , artistic child and it wasn't really supported. , I grew up Muslim, so you know, I had to like pray five times a day.
I was like in hijab on the set. If you can imagine having to stop work to pray five times a day. They were like, you can only get away with this cuz your brother's a star of the show. . So . But, so I didn't really have a direction to be honest with you. I wanted to be a dancer. But again, because I was Muslim, I couldn't be a dancer, so I kind of just settled for something entertaining.
And then the job ended because of hiatus. And the people that I met were [00:09:00] like, Hey, we're gonna go work on the Spike Lee show and movie, and then we're gonna work on this. And I just kind of like was being pulled in different directions, if you will. It, it's kind of a late bloomer, but, so that was my beginning.
I didn't really have a plan. It was just like, I'll just keep working a wardrobe. And then 2004, I think it was, I was telling a friend of mine how I wanted to start designing because that felt like that would be more my lane than just regurgitating someone else's idea. It's nothing wrong with being a customer, obviously.
That's how I started off, but I just felt like I was too creative to just like, watch people on set and make sure they didn't have lint on their clothes , or make sure their clothes were steamed. So that's kind of how I eventually, the director like literally came up to me and he was like, I want you to design my next film.
And I was like, did you just overhear a conversation? He's like, no. I just thought of it like, I think you're talented. Which I don't know how he figured that out because I hadn't like, oh, I think something happened on set where I had to change someone's outfit. Because I think somebody had a logo on it and [00:10:00] he kind of liked what I put together.
That's what it was. So then I started designing, but it was never like a passion until I started doing it. And then I was like, this is, I get to create people . So that's kinda how it went.
Julie Harris Oliver: And then you're like, this is my jam. Yeah. Turns out that, that's so interesting to me that you were, were you trying to pray five times a day on set?
Rahima Yoba: It wasn't trying. That was just part of my religion. My brother, he, people didn't know this. His name is Malik Yoba, but his full name is Abdul Malik Yoba . And do you know him? Ronda?
Rhonda O'Neal: I have not worked with him, but you all look just alike. So I figured that's who it was. I know. I'd love to work with him.
It's like once I say it,
Rahima Yoba: yeah, he's a, he's a, I discovered later, like way after the show was over, I was like, he's a really good actor. My mom's like, are you kidding me? He's excellent. I used to love that show. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And it was nothing like it. It was, , because [00:11:00] there weren't any shows where you saw a black man as a detective.
Like you usually saw a black man or a Puerto Rican guy, which Michael De Loredo played his partner. They were the criminals in most of these TV shows, so it was unique in that way. And then they wore like all hip hop gear, like the latest of every designer that was out back then. You know, whether it was FUBU or Peli Peli or Sean John or Fat Farm and the singing. Yeah. And then it was the Right,
Rhonda O'Neal: and they introduced a lot of the, A lot of the newcomers. Yep, exactly. I coming up a lot of the artists, which was a wonderful
Rahima Yoba: show. Yeah. I feel like I met everyone from like Aaliyah to like Tina Marie to like, I even think Hall N oates won. Was was on the show once, like cuz? I think so,
Rhonda O'Neal: yeah. Oh wow. So what a fun that was a fun
Rahima Yoba: experience. Yeah. And it was my first time, so I was like, this is what it's like. And then I was like, oh wait. Not every show is like this
Julie Harris Oliver: Amazing. Wow, what a great entree. And [00:12:00] it, it makes me think of a whole, a whole nother level of, , inclusion on set that I hadn't thought about before.
If people are actually needing to stop to pray, and I imagine it's not terribly friendly for people trying to do that.
Rahima Yoba: Yeah, and I guess cuz I was so young, I didn't know any better. I didn't know. Like I can't even imagine doing that now. I don't practice Islam anymore, but I can't imagine. I'm like, hold on a second.
I know I have a fitting, but I need to because you, you don't just pray when you're Muslim. Like you don't just sit there and start praying. You have to go do oo, which is the washing. So I would have to go to the bathroom that all the extras would be in, and I'm like using up the sink water, trying to like do my. When I think about it now, it's kinda crazy that I did that and it was quite,
Julie Harris Oliver: Can you imagine. Hold the shot!
Rahima Yoba: Hold on a second. I'll do last looks after I do my last prayer, but I was a PA at the time so I guess it kind of didn't matter cuz I wasn't like in the union. But it was, I think about it now because, you know you're there for back then, that's when we worked [00:13:00] like easily 16 hours.
Yeah. And I probably had to pray at least four times while I was there. You know, so.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay. Rhonda, talk to us about, , Beyond the Combs. Cause I know we are in this mo not in this moment, I'm sure. We've been this way for the last a hundred years in a crisis of not having enough professionals to really care for black hair and makeup in the business.
And so I know you're trying to. Help resolve that and, and provide support. So tell us about your organization.
Rhonda O'Neal: Beyond the Combs Academy. What that is is basically it's, it's a hub. I call it a hub. It's where people can come learn and. , gather together because I say it in that way because we, as artists, we, we learn best with our hands.
And so I've made a place where I can help prepare people to get into this industry. And as you said, there has not been enough people of [00:14:00] color to do what we need sufficiently on set. It's not that it's not enough people, period. It's just not enough people that can do our hair to do people of color, not just course thick hair, but I've got, I get calls from producers to help facilitate. To either bring on other hair and makeup teams, or if I'm available to do Puerto Rican hair. So their hair or mixed hair is not that it has to be thick. It's just a matter of there are not enough people that can do textured hair. Any, many textures, right?
So during the pandemic, which I had already been working on and talking through with one of my good friends, from the Urban League, Los Angeles Urban League President Michael Lawson, and I was gonna work with him, but what I was doing was a little different from what they do in the entertainment section of the Urban League. So I said, let me just do [00:15:00] this on my own with my team of instructors, which one of my instructors is the, the first black male hairstylist to enter into the union.
That's one of my instructors. He's,, Robert Stevenson since 1969. I have the second. Makeup artist to enter into the union and a number of other wonderful, talented instructors. And everybody is not an instructor. Everybody can't teach. So I've been blessed to have a number of people that were able and available to teach people that are willing, that are ready to come into the union.
They're not just coming outta cosmetology schools. Some of these people are personals to save somebody like, naomi Campbell, I'm just using a name. So these are pair people and makeup people that are, have been trying to get into the union and just don't know how. And [00:16:00] so I'm there to help prepare them because hair and makeup, what we do on sets, any part of the crew, it's not business as usual.
So it's, there's no book for it. Basically, you have to have experience, right, to be able to teach that. And so that's what I do when you get that call, I want to have you prepared and ready.
Julie Harris Oliver: How do people find
you?
Rhonda O'Neal: So you can go to either your IG. Beyond the Combs Academy and find me. There are, the website is beyondthecombs.academy.
What we do at the academy is we teach, we prepare hair, makeup, wardrobe, as well as stunt performers to get into the union. And you can come there and learn continuing education. You can learn braiding, weaving. You can learn how to put on a ponytail. We can, we also have a four Day Hollywood course that can help teach you how to read scripts, break down, break down a script, read call sheets, and things of that nature.
As [00:17:00] well as learn textured hair, learn how to wig application. So there are so many things that you can learn - barbering, you can learn how to barber grooming. Keep in mind, one of the specialties is definitely textured hair. So, um, come there whenever you can. Located in the heart of Lamar Park, 4310 Crenshaw Boulevard in Los Angeles.
So
Julie Harris Oliver: all the things, everything. Oh, that's wonderful. Okay, great. Everyone should go sign up now. When you got the call for this job, you know you're doing an independent film, but then also you're doing Project Greenlight, which is on camera while you're doing your job. Why on Earth did you agree to do this?
Rhonda O'Neal: Well, I was, I got the call to be department head and , then when, I guess when the producers called me in, they had read my resume and then they said that I was basically, they didn't use the term but, kind of overqualified , and could [00:18:00] we find someone else to, could I actually find, maybe use my students to do it?
And I said, okay, that'd be good. But they, they gave me the script. And when I read the script, I loved it. And I said that I would, I would like to do it. And I was able to bring one of my students on since it was textured hair. And so I, I basically said yes, I wanted to do it. And when I fell in love with this script.
Julie Harris Oliver: Great. What about you, Rahima?
Rahima Yoba: When I got the call, what was that? I was sleeping actually , and they had, , I guess they had a DI diversity. I was signed up on a diversity list. I had signed up for a few of 'em as they were like being emailed to me throughout the, kind of like throughout the pandemic, all of these diversity lists for production companies were being, um, issued for people of color, et cetera.
And I, uh, got the call and I didn't, I usually know. Everyone that I'm working with, or at least the producers or someone involved, and I knew no one. So at first, you know, I'm from New York. [00:19:00] I don't, I always think something's a scam. So it's like
suspicious, first suspicious. Don't be suspicious. So at first I was like, You know, cause I'm kind of groggy and I'm like, what is this guy telling me? It was Corey, the producer. And I was like, is this a scam? So I'm looking at my phone and I'm like, what is he talking about? I'm like, Project Greenlight, didn't that show get canceled?
Because I knew it was on before. So I, to be honest, I thought it was a scam. And then when I realized it wasn't.
Julie Harris Oliver: That's hilarious.
Rahima Yoba: He was like, were you sleeping? And I was like, no, I'm fine. But I really was like, I think you're a scam artist. I don't wanna say that, but he just sounded So, now that I realize what was happening, he was being recorded because he had already been on camera.
So he had cameras in his, cuz he sounded so scripted that it sounded like a scam .
Julie Harris Oliver: He's totally self conscious cause he's being filmed while
Rhonda O'Neal: Can I say this before you finish? I did not [00:20:00] put that in, but I actually thought so too. . .
I'm serious.
I really did too, so, okay. I'm not the only one, but I didn't talk to him.
That's, it was someone else that, that emailed me or called me and then I. I was like, and it's not that you had to be from New York. It was like I was a little taken back and I felt like, okay, what, what kind of information they want from me? So yes, the same thing happened. That's so. Funny. I said, well, if they don't want, if this isn't a scam, then okay.
And she reached back out to me too, and I was like, okay, what does she really want? ? They're like, no, we're serious. Yes. This is a real thing. Hilarious. Yes. Okay. Okay. I don't mean to interrupt you, but Yes. Oh my God.
Rahima Yoba: I'm so saying that too. , that's a show in itself.
Julie Harris Oliver: All right. So somehow they convinced you that this [00:21:00] is a good idea,
Yeah. And then I, so you signed up.
Rahima Yoba: I started Googling it, and then I was like, oh, wait, Issa Rae, he mentioned Issa Rae. I was like pulling out bullet points that he mentioned. So at first I was, uh, I watched it again just to kind of refresh, like, you know, okay, let me try to remember, like, you know, the, the format I wanted to familiarize myself with the format.
Before I agreed to this thing. So when I watched it, I saw that there were very few scenes, like I watched the entire season, season four. There were very few scenes with the wardrobe department. In fact, you would see someone steaming and I was like, okay, they have customers on camera. And then at one point the director was speaking with the designer, but it was a voiceover and she was just like throwing him fabric.
So I said, oh, this is like a documentary where they'll have cameras around and they'll just be filming us randomly. I wasn't prepared for what we actually did , to be honest.
Julie Harris Oliver: So you thought you were gonna be safe?
Rahima Yoba: Not even so much safe, but like, [00:22:00] cuz I always wanted to tell, I created, , a curriculum. Like how, how, , I'm so inspired by you Rhonda because you actually have the thing that I've been dreaming about doing, so I'm gonna be picking your brain.
But I always wanted to create a curriculum for a workshop. To teach people about what we do because I too didn't know this was a job before I started and one of my first jobs on the corner in Baltimore back in the day, they uh, kids were running up to me cuz they were black kids and they saw me and it wasn't a lot, it wasn't a lot of black people on the crew on that show.
And they were like, how did you get this job? And I was like, what? And I was like, oh my God, these kids don't even know that this is the job. You know? So anyway, back to Project Greenlight, I just, I wanted to be able to tell the story of what we do because people think it's glamorous. They think it's, oh, you shop all day.
And I'm like, that's like a tiny part of it. Like the bigger part is the admin part, the logistics, like all the other part, managing people and personalities that you don't know cuz you just met them and you're never gonna see them again after the show's [00:23:00] over. So it's a whole other part of it that people are, have a disillusion about essentially.
So I was excited to be able to show what we did, but based on season four, even though it was different producers. Wardrobe was very rarely on camera, so I didn't realize I was gonna have a mic pack with my name on it, and I would be coming outta my car in the morning and they would have the cameras up.
I'm like, I would've rented a better car. Like, is this a reality show? Like I shoulda my makeup more like, stop wearing a hat every day. I started to feel so self conscious.
Julie Harris Oliver: Crazy. Yeah.
Rahima Yoba: Cause I'm not very flashy, like as a designer, surprisingly. Like I don't, I like name brands, but like good quality clothes.
But I'm not gonna wear like Louis Vuitton everywhere or like, that's just not my thing. But I kind of wish that I would've, like, I was like, maybe I should have stepped it up a little bit, you know? Because I didn't realize I was gonna be on camera that much. I thought it was gonna be like a swipe.
Rhonda O'Neal: Or maybe rebraided my braids, cause I looked a mess.[00:24:00]
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, it's like the, the cobbler's children have no shoes.
Rahima Yoba: Exactly. Exactly. But I thought it was pretty fascinating how they shot it and even the interview process and, but then it makes you feel so self-conscious. So I feel like sometimes I was trying to put it on, but then like, I was like, how long can I keep this up?
Like , they're gonna film this for the whole time. So I feel like, like I can't wait to see it cause I feel like I'm gonna look like five different people based on whatever the mood was. Like, oh, have to be cheery today. Lemme put my red lipstick on. Let me go. Hi guys. Oh my gosh.
Rhonda O'Neal: That's the truth. Or whatever time the call time was or what time did we get off The night before?
The day before.
Exactly. Exactly.
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh my gosh. So for both of you, did it change how you do your job besides feeling self-conscious and like you should have hair and makeup before you ever [00:25:00] show up to set? Did it, did it change your process
Rhonda O'Neal: at all?
At all?
Well, I just felt not really for me, it made it where I had to be more alert though.
But as far as changing the process, I think it was better. It, it made me be able to, Like I said, I had one of my, stu, a couple of my students there, and so it, it helped me to just kind of be on top of my gain even more to, to help teach them and help segue them into doing, doing the whole tr process of being present in the trailer properly.
Julie Harris Oliver: How about you Rahima? Did it change at all what you were doing?
Rahima Yoba: It absolutely did it, it uh, actually it was less about my process cuz I feel like every process on. In the, in the Partment, it's kind of the same. You get the script, you read it, you break it down, you hire your crew, you figure out the budget, like it's a certain format, even though the product is different and the script is different.
But it [00:26:00] changed how I worked because I'm newer to designing. Like even though I design like in 2004, and then again I try to do music for a while. I do poetry, I write, so wardrobe is the, the, what allows me to have a great living and a great lifestyle. And I love it because I'm able to tell stories through clothing.
Right? So, but I have to say, and I'm gonna be completely transparent, it taught me how to be more professional because I'm such a people person and because I was a costumer for so long, I want everyone to be friends and get along. These people don't care about me. Like they were talking about me behind my back.
I found out later, like, but you start up this job like , this is really true, but I, I'm always like Kumbaya in everyone, and that's not really what this industry is. It's a professional industry where even though we could wear sneakers and jeans and hoodies all day, you have to conduct yourself a certain way.
So I'm just gonna be [00:27:00] transparent. I had to learn how to be quiet. I had to learn how to not talk about my kid if someone asked me questions. Just be very generic. Yeah, she's fine. Great. Did you steam that? Instead of she, she's fine. And then we start talking and they start asking me questions. I was, I'm so like honest and I had to learn how to, that job actually taught me how to be quiet and how to be more reserved and keep it more in a professional lane and keep your personal business out of it.
Like this next job I'm on, they won't even know I have a kid until one day randomly they see me at the Americana with her having lunch. And they might think I'm babysitting because I had to learn that when you're a department head, you can't be too personable with your employees. because it turns, it turns on you.
And I had that experience on this job, unfortunately. So I had to learn how to be more professional in how I speak to people. Not that I'm reckless or anything like [00:28:00] that, but just I'm very passionate because I feel like because I'm an artist. I think most of artists are passionate and sensitive, and I was taking things way too personal.
I was oversharing and I kept forgetting. I had a mic on and that was freaking me out because it was after long conversations on downtime, like during lunch. And I would look at my crew and they're like, what? I'm like, I'm wearing a mic. Do you think they can hear us? And we're talking about deep personal things because some of these folks that I hired, I consider, they were like friends of mine.
So, but there's a fine line between like professionalism and friendship when you're on the film set and because we're so casual it gets blurred. So that was the hardest and biggest lesson that I learned. So it did change how I work because being recorded made me more conscious of my actions, if that makes sense.
Rhonda O'Neal: That's really good. Yeah, that's real good because you need to come over and, and [00:29:00] speak at one of, at my academy now, because that's, that's what I was speaking about in regards too , it helped me to work with the students better and stay in line with what I, what I teach in the school. And when you spoke about your, your child, for the first, about almost 10 years of me being in this industry, no one even knew I had kids and I had three because people don't care.
About exactly us like that in this industry, which is crazy. And, and another thing I do teach in, in i, I wrote in my book as well, is the best way to be on set is to sit down, be quiet. and don't say anything because we are all filmmakers and in order for us to work and be able to put this production out there, [00:30:00] we have to be ready and prepared all, almost all at the same time.
Because if you are doing the hair, if I'm doing the hair, you doing the wardrobe. Each piece of us it takes to make this movie, it makes this, to make this project what it is. We have to be ready and we have to be in place to do, to get the job done. So that's what I had to make sure that my, my, my people in the trailer, that I was able to hire even the hair and and makeup side to be in place.
Because when you're shooting at seven in the morning, five in the morning, I'm usually asleep at 9:00 PM. We had to be alert. Also, I have a thing when I do work at four o'clock in the morning. I allow people to go into the trailer and sleep for about 15 minutes just to get their, get themselves back up [00:31:00] instead of doing the, we can sleep.
I mean, I mean, I was even guilty of doing, you know, just taking a nod on set because it's, Humanbeings are sleeping at 5:00 AM , you know, so it is best to just go get a little jolt of, you know, get sleep, sleep in, and then come back to the set more alert. But, um, yes, , I truly agree with you that you know, you have to learn that everybody's not your friend that you hire.
It's basically the quality of who you, you're hiring. I don't care if they're, they're not my friend.
Julie Harris Oliver: I think that's, that's such good advice about the professionalism and the boundaries about it, and also feel like it's so important that we try to change the business a little bit so that we can admit we have children.
I mean, instead of, cause I went through the same thing too in corporate land. [00:32:00] Had three children for years, people had no idea. But I gotta think there's, there's room for us to try to change the business enough to like actually be humans with lives who work there.
Rhonda O'Neal: We can say that we, we try that, but everybody's lifestyle is not accommodating us to be able to do that.
I mean like now, yes, it is good to say that you have children, but be careful who we work with. I'm very careful of who I work with now that I'm in this industry. I worked, I went through a divorce, I worked with all moms, that cared. So if you're going to, you know, put it out there, make sure you, to me know who you're working with, who you're, you know, who you're bringing in your camp or who's in your camp.
I turned down jobs. Unfortunately, I may be broke fo, you know, for a minute, but I'd rather have a peace of [00:33:00] mind than to work with people that don't accept, like, like you said, um, that accept my kids. Yeah, I was grinding so hard to where, no, I didn't, I wasn't gonna tell people because I was, I was working on those 16 hour days that I needed the money first, and so, yeah.
It's so hard. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: I think it would be helpful if all the fathers admitted they had children. Yeah. On set. See if they had a wife that . I know we should all have wives
Rhonda O'Neal: to help. I can't admit that first. . Oh my God, that is so funny. .
Julie Harris Oliver: How so let's talk about the movie for a bit. What kind of challenges did you face for the movie that you overcame?
I imagine some of them will show up on screen, some may not. We don't have any idea yet cuz none of us have seen it, but, what kind of challenges did you have to work out and make? What kind of magic did you have to make happen?
Rahima Yoba: The biggest challenge for Gray matter was the budget. I understood that there would be a budget constraint, [00:34:00] which is on every show, and reading the script, I knew that because they were a mom and daughter on the run, and I imagine they laid low and shopped at thrift stores as opposed to like target stores that have cameras and that sort of thing. I made them, the clothing that I chose was from thrift stores. That was my initial intention. So one of the characters, the, the mom, Jessica, the actress Jessica, the jacket that I put on her was from a thrift store.
Fit her perfectly. She loved it. It was going to take us through the entire film. Now, normally I wouldn't do that because you, you just never know what's gonna happen. So you always wanna have like something that you have a double of. But the way it was scripted, I figured we wouldn't need a double, she couldn't get away with this.
She had stunt. She had the photo doubles and we had to recreate the jacket . So that was a huge challenge because it did not exist anymore. It was a jacket from a clothing-
Julie Harris Oliver: Did you have to make it?
Rahima Yoba: Yeah, I had [00:35:00] to find the fabric, the zippers, the leather, all the parts. I had to drop it off at a, , seamstress;s home, and she had to recreate it in 24 hours. She had to make two of them. because they had added stunts and photo doubles, so you know when you-
Julie Harris Oliver: In 24 hours.
Rahima Yoba: Yeah. And she charged us accordingly. Which she should have.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, . She should!
Rahima Yoba: Because this particular jacket, it wasn't like a regular like simple panel jacket. It had zippers and seams and leather patches and I mean, it was like very in, which is why I chose it, because it also felt kind of futuristic, which is what this film reminded me of. So that was one of the challenges. And then because of the budget, again, we didn't have a large crew. It, they were very, uh, let me see how many people in my department, like four, I wanna say, and then the PA.
And then once in a while we would have additionals come, but the size of the film was still sizeable, even though. [00:36:00] It was a Project Greenlight film, and the concept is about the documentary. You know, you know what I'm saying? Like sometimes even though the film, mm-hmm. Even though they can say, oh, this is just a TV show about filmmaking and then you're gonna be designing the film within the TV show.
It sounds like a small feat, but it's still an actual film. It's stunts and blood and you're still making a whole movie. Right? Yeah. So it's, that was very challenging because we didn't have a lot of money to do it. So as often as I could use thrift store clothes, I did. And yeah, the budget was the most challenging and the lack of.
That we had available or were able to hire, but we did it.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, you did it. How about you, Rhonda?
Rhonda O'Neal: I will have to agree. It was the budget. I had to create wigs that I had to get a couple of wigs, and I had to also do them myself basically, because it was hard to get [00:37:00] people that were more, a little more qualified for the job that could actually do period work and do wigs to come out there.
It was very far for the budget, for the price, so I had to do, and wigs are expensive, aren't they? They are, they can be, but, I didn't have anyone to actually do wig work for me, so I had to do a lot of the work myself, and that's a little hard when you usually hire a key that can do, do things. I had to teach my key how to do it and step in more and create the, the hair, the period hairstyles myself because nobody would come out there for that price.
So you, you
Julie Harris Oliver: are making wigs?
Rhonda O'Neal: I'm sorry. Design the wigs. I had to style the wigs. It Was hard to design for me to have to do that myself, when usually my [00:38:00] key would style the wig for me. So I, I had to almost do everything. I had to go behind and do, you know, make sure things were looking proper because of the rate.
Because of the price. Because of the distance.
Julie Harris Oliver: And I heard there was also a lot of periods in this, like there was a sitcom there. You had to be in the sixties, you had to be in a bunch of different eras. Did you have to create just so many more looks than-
Rhonda O'Neal: Yes, I did those. I prepped those wigs before time on my own time. Normally we get a prep day for that, but I had to do it on my own time. I didn't get paid for it. So yeah, it was, it was a lot. And I was also coming off of another show.
Julie Harris Oliver: All right. You must have loved that script.
Rhonda O'Neal: I wanted to give my students some experience since I, they were open to bring them on.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah, that's great. Rahima, how are the different eras and different looks for you?
Rahima Yoba: You know what's interesting? The intention wasn't to have a different era. I actually, [00:39:00] I think I kind of created that , because again, we didn't have a large budget, so I have a huge kit of stock clothing and I was trying to figure out how to save money every chance I got.
So in this particular day, When I was imagining what the daughter in the film, what her Mia, her name is, what her imagery would be when she thought of an ideal world, because she loves sitcoms. I wanted to just create the quintessential sitcom mom. And I had this Sears sucker house coat, and I went to the costume house to rent aprons, and I just found this apron that just happened to be vintage.
And when I presented it to the director, she loved the idea. So it wasn't even meant to be a period. It just happened because of the clothing that was available and what I chose to match with it. So then we kind of went with that. Do you know what I mean?
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. So then Rhonda, did you, did that change your hair plan when the wardrobe became period?
Rhonda O'Neal: [00:40:00] Yes.
Julie Harris Oliver: Were you like, thank you?
Rhonda O'Neal: No, it . That's why I, that's why I was saying that because it was like, oh my gosh. This isn't what I read.
This is not, that's not what I was like-
Julie Harris Oliver: That wasn't what I planned for.
Rhonda O'Neal: Now I have to go and make a wig. I have to go, go design a wig and that takes time.
Julie Harris Oliver: So you're like, oh, I'm not sleeping.
Okay, I'm sorry.
Rahima Yoba: What's crazy is that is not until we saw the picture-
Rhonda O'Neal: Not the laugh.
Rahima Yoba: When we saw the picture from-
but wasn't even intention was like, oh my God. Ones from like the fifties, but it was only once she put it on, it like came alive in the fifties or something, or sixties. So that wasn't even the intention to make it period.
Rhonda O'Neal: It was a beautiful piece. Oh my god. Skirt. It was a [00:41:00] beautiful scene. Oh God, that's so funny.
It was, it's hilarious. I'm laughing because my brain still was still, it wasn't working and I put the wig on her on the wrong day . So we were like, it was a mess. It was a mess. And Miko had to come in there and say, um, Rhonda, you're doing a great job, but this isn't the right day for it.
My brain was still at getting off at seven in the morning. I was like, what? Oh my gosh. So we were, we were able to get, get it together. We, we didn't slow down production. It was like the whole trailer that particular day was chaotic. It was like the makeup artist. One of the makeup artists didn't get there for two hours. Another one was two hours late. The other one was about an hour late. I'm putting on the wrong wig.
Rahima Yoba: And it was like, [00:42:00] but the thing is when they kept saying she needs to be in her period, look, I was like, what period look? There's no period look in the show. I was like, oh, I think it's because, once I got that period apron.
Everyone just started calling at that and I was like, oh my God, what did I do? Like, have I created?
You really
Rhonda O'Neal: something .
Julie Harris Oliver: That's hilarious. Like you thought you found a cute apron, which caused a whole cascade of people running around going crazy.
Rhonda O'Neal: Okay, so I'm not crazy.
Julie Harris Oliver: No you're not.
Rahima Yoba: Because the script simply just said something, it didn't say you know, the mom's in a period Look, it just said it, it was, it was speaking to, , Mia, the daughter's ideal version of what she, this again, is up to the interpretation, right? So as I read in the script as an artist, I'm like, what would, what would I think is my ideal life if I spent my whole life on the run with my mom?
Like, I grew up in a very, like, crazy household, so, and I'm older, I'm like gonna gonna be 50 [00:43:00] soon. So I'm thinking of things from my childhood. So I'm thinking of like, oh, like that perfect mom. Cuz I didn't grow up with my mom. So I'm like with an apron on and just like , leave it to Beaver June. June Cleaver.
Exactly. Exactly, exactly. So I'm thinking that like, you know, that kind of mom. So when I was at the costume house, because the Sears sucker dress that I had, I knew it was gonna be free because it was mine, and we wouldn't have to pay for that, that much for that outfit. I was like, oh, I got this. This apron is perfect.
And then I put it on her and all of all of a sudden she morphed into like June Cleaver. So it wasn't even intended, but when I showed it to Nico, she's like, I love this idea. And that's part of the collaborative
Rhonda O'Neal: process.
That was so good though. That was great.
Rahima Yoba: They kept saying the period clothes and I was like, what are they talking about?
And then another time I put her in this again, it was what was available. We didn't have a lot of money, so I went to Nords Rack and I brought her this yellow top and I was like, shopping like this. And I had like 20 minutes before her fitting cuz it was, like I said, [00:44:00] we, we were understaffed, so it was always like last minute, everything was like rush, rush, rush.
So I just pulled some outfit together and I run back to the trailer and her fitting was like maybe an hour after I got back. So I'm setting all the clothes up and she puts it on and I was like, oh my God, you look like Peg Bundy . It's like she kept turning into these people and it wasn't even meant to be.
So when, you know, when, when they saw it, everyone kept saying she looks like Peg Bundy and Jessica Rabbit. Cause she has a really small waist and, you know, she's curvy. So it's like the actress herself kept morphing into these- but that's a part of the happy accidents that we love when, when we're making film is movie.
But that period thing just sent me over the edge because I kept saying, why do they keep calling it that? And I'm like, but then when she put it on, I here was done. I said, oh my gosh, you just stepped back into the 1950s or sixties. That's really good though. But then I'm gonna be honest with you on another level, on another note rather, and this goes to show like the process of filmmaking when race is involved.
Because when I saw her at [00:45:00] first, I, the first thing I thought I was like, she looks really great. And then she said it. And we both, I was like, I was just thinking that. She said, do you think I look like a maid? Mm-hmm. , because June cleaver was June Cleaver because she was a white woman in America. But when you put a black woman in that same outfit with an apron, she looks less like a housewife whose successful black husband is in at a corporate job.
That wasn't a thing back then, and she looked more like the maid for the white family. So it, it's just so fascinating to me how, and then we also were considering like if we show her with natural hair, the entire film, like hair, you know, her hair, crinkly, curly, natural hair, and then have the ideal version be a relaxed perm look, is that sending the image or, or the, the idea that that's what's perfect when your hair's not naturally what Rhonda teaches kinky, curly African American hair, and it's more like a perfect white woman essentially, for lack of a better term or word. So [00:46:00] that's interesting because you, you don't think about that when you have white actors.
You just dress them and they just morph into whoever. But when you have a black actress, it turns into, especially if it looks period, you have to think about racial inequality and where black people were. So it it, that was a trippy part about that outfit. It turned into so many different things. And
Rhonda O'Neal: you did a great job with that too.
And what you, what you just said was the reason why I wanted her hair to be relaxed. Because of what you said about she could look like a maid. But that would be in the era of the Hattie May, the maid that was always played, the lady that won the first, first Oscar. And that would've been what they would've thought of, and that's why I did wanna make it into a pretty soft Leave it to Beaver.
Instead of the finger waves that we normally would come with in that era, in that time as a black person or the kinky hair.
Rahima Yoba: Mm-hmm. I also added a pearl necklace, [00:47:00] Pearl earrings, and they did her makeup. I don't know who did a makeup, but it was perfect because I wanted her to feel more elegant and like a mom, because if I didn't add that jewelry, I felt like it would've read like she was a maid.
Rhonda O'Neal: Karina.
Rahima Yoba: So that was like an interesting,
Rhonda O'Neal: yeah, yeah, yeah. That was good. . That was good. And that's filmmaking. That's that's a part of what filmmakers we're all filmmakers and bringing it all together. Yeah, that was
Julie Harris Oliver: good.
Good. And representation matters. Yeah. And you need to think about all those things. Mm-hmm. , I'm also wondering now, when you put her in that outfit, did that change the set and the set deck?
Like now do we need to go back and ask the props people, did they make changes because of that outfit? Put it in a different period?
Rahima Yoba: I don't know. Me and Martina were very close. Like we just kind of like more like we got so close on this film. So I saw her sets and the colors, wall colors, fabric choices for the couch.
I saw that way in advance. So when I found that blue Sears suckers house dress on my rack, [00:48:00] I already knew what the color schemes were, so that's why I was so obsessed with them like, this is gonna look good. Cause the coloring was kinda yellow and a little green and brown. They were more earth tone. And then she would have this light blue and white Sears sucker dress on with a white apron.
So it would contrast nicely against it. So I had, I always have to have the, the set design in mind when I'm designing anything. But what happened was when she walked into the set, it was like, even if it wasn't a like vintage furniture for some reason, everything around her, and Rhonda, you can tell me if you agree with this.
It felt like she, we stepped into another time. It really did. It was
Rhonda O'Neal: incredible. I thought it was a different sofa. It was just, it was incredible. It felt like a different era. Yeah, it was good. Very good. Okay.
Julie Harris Oliver: What was, what was your favorite memory on this production? Whoever has theirs at the ready? I
Rhonda O'Neal: feel like the bond that was brought that we, we all began to bring together as building of the relationships and how, I'll just say in my [00:49:00] trailer, one day I left out and went to get something to eat and I came back in and three other people in the trailer hadn't ever really worked in trailers before.
And so it was all new to them. Mind you, we are working like crazy hours and tired and when I walked back in there, I felt like I was everybody's auntie because, it was the banging and the music and the dancing of the actors and the all of us. It was like a family. They were having such a good time.
They're having a party and when. They were having such a party and it was midnight and they were like, woo Rhonda's in here. I was like, and I just started dancing with them. It was just like, that was my memory cuz that was , that was our department. But it was just so lovely to see and everybody just got along to me on the set, even though as tired as we all were, we all got along.
Julie Harris Oliver: That's fun. [00:50:00] How about you Rahima?
Rahima Yoba: I don't know if it's so much like one particular memory, but to kind of, to piggyback off of what Rhonda said, I really enjoy when actors are happy with their clothes. Like it's less about me and look, I designed the show, and it's like, how do you, do you feel like you pulled this outta your closet as an actor?
If, because my, my job is not really done unless the actor feels like they are comfortable. And Jessica, I feel like every single time I saw. Firm, whether sh we were doing something in the nineties or the infamous period costume or the Peg Bundy look, she just kept saying, I feel so good. And to be honest with you, that was my favorite part.
Like it was less about me being on camera, even though I tried to like, you know, pull it together for those moments. And it was unique and interesting. I thought my favorite part was gonna me being able to tell the story of costume designing as it pertains to behind the scenes. But my favorite part wound up being when [00:51:00] the actors just simply the kids on the show, they were like, this is how we were really dressed.
Like I love that. Like that part, it's like, go do your part cuz I did mine. So that to me was, was my favorite part.
Julie Harris Oliver: And I gotta think that that supports the acting and helps them so much get into character and get on with it.
Rahima Yoba: Yeah. and then working with Miko to be a, I wouldn't even call her first time directors.
The first time she did something, I think on the mainstream, I think is more accurate. But she never really wavered from her choices. Like she didn't say do this, and then like the next day say, what is that you're showing me? I said, alien uniform. And I'm like, wait, no, you said you wanted her to, so, cause that happens sometimes.
So she's not crazy, right? It's like we don't have that. But working with her and just having her be. Sure about how she wanted this film to look. Really helped me a lot, so I love, and I had never met her before, so it was a great working relationship.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay, well, it feels like we've been together for five minutes, but it has been an [00:52:00] hour.
So now we're in our martini shot, which will be our last shot of the podcast. So my last question for you is, what advice do you have for people trying to get into doing what you do in the business?
Rhonda O'Neal: My thing is to be patient with yourself. This is a hard industry. Always give yourself a pat on the back, say You're doing good, but really be open to the learning.
Although you have a ton of skills, there are so many things that happen from production to production, you have to be accommodating. Always, always be a student and build great relationships along the way because this industry is not business as usual, but it's built on relationships. It's not always how well you do the job, it's how you treat people along the
Julie Harris Oliver: way.
Way.
I love it. I love the Always be a student I think is so important. And of course, the treating people well, that's the thing that's gonna carry you all the way through. Yes.
Rhonda O'Neal: Yes. That's been [00:53:00] what's helped me in this industry, that I can pick up the phone when I don't have a job and say, Hey, or text nowadays, and say, Hey, I'm available.
And the next call that I get is, can you work these days or, Can you work on this show? Yeah. And that's what's helped.
Julie Harris Oliver: Rahima. What's your advice?
Rahima Yoba: I have a few things that I would give his advice. Literally everything Rhonda just said, it's so accurate because our next job is usually determined on what our reputation is.
You know how they say your reputation precedes you. So a lot of jobs that I've gotten in this industry, which is why I thought Corey was a scam artist, , who was, um, . , not to bring that up again, but I really did. But I've usually gotten jobs from producers, actors, directors that I knew before, and they love how I work.
I would say absolutely show up way before your call time, not way before, but if your call time is seven, show up at 6:45 because you always want to be ready to work. When you get there do your job with excellence. Treat [00:54:00] it like this is your own production, meaning really care about the folks that you're working with, whether it's the people in front of the camera or behind the scenes have an end game for sure.
And have a B plan. I really wish when I started in this industry that I would've had something else running alongside of it, like the clothing line or gotten a degree in marketing or or business or something else. Because when the curtains close, you are often wondering, how am I gonna get another job?
And it's very nerve-wracking sometimes when you are sitting around on unemployment trying to wonder where if you had some other business running alongside that would be your other- especially now, there's so many other ways to make pick, make money and to generate income and multiple streams. So I would absolutely suggest if you are intending on getting into this business, because it takes up so much of your time, you should start a business.
Outside of this and, uh, definitely treating folks right? I'm not [00:55:00] into coming on sets and being the Devil Wears Prada at all. I want people to have fun, but still have a level of professionalism. Again, what we spoke about earlier is set etiquette, not freaking out when you meet your favorite star, Learning how to control yourself and keep it inside and call your friend at lunchtime and tell them later who you just met.
And then also boundaries. Understanding that until we get to a point where the industry really cares about what happens in your personal life, the pandemic did that a little bit. I've never heard of so many, so much diversity in terms of POC, BIPOC. I think it's black person, indigenous people of color.
Yeah. , pronouns. Like that wasn't a thing when I was younger. You know, what's your pronoun? What do you wanna be called? So there seems to be so much more inclusion, which oddly enough happened during the pandemic when we were all secluded. So maybe that will continue in that people will now care about your personal life.
But until then, keep [00:56:00] it the door closed and just go to set and focus on the art, the craft, being a good person, getting the job done, because what do we usually have, you know, three months to a year to do the production and it's over in the can and then it lives in infamy. So those would be the, the long list of advice I would give to anyone getting into the.
Julie Harris Oliver: Well, this has been so fun. It was so nice to meet you both. I can't wait to watch the show and I hope you get all the screen time. That'll be the best. So, Rhonda O'Neal, thank you so much.
Rhonda O'Neal: Thank you for having me. This is
Julie Harris Oliver: wonderful. And Rahima Yoba, thank you so much. Thank you. You're welcome. All right.
Thanks for being on Catch A Break. This has been Catch a Break, Project Greenlight edition. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. I'd like to thank our guests, Rhonda O'Neal and Rahima Yoba. And special thanks to crewvie.com, a dynamic platform that connects people to productions worldwide. Please check out our website at catchabreakpodcast.com and follow us on all the social media.
Catch A Break is produced in partnership with CatchLight [00:57:00] Studios and the other 50%. Our theme music mantra for a struggling artist was, By Andrew Jocelyn. Thanks for listening, and be sure to go watch Project Greenlight and then come back and check us out for the behind the scenes of the behind the scenes.
Next up we talk Onset sound and video assist with Savanna Peters and Sara Glaser. In the meantime, I hope this helps you to catch a break.