EP 406: The Cinematographer and the Gaffer

Julie Harris Oliver: [00:00:00] This is the Catch A Break podcast, the insiders guide to breaking into and navigating the entertainment industry. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. You can find us at catchabreakpodcast.com and all the social media at Catch A Break Pod, as well as all the podcast places. The presenting sponsor of Season four of Catch a Break is Santa Clarita Studios, a full service independent studio featuring 35 sound stages.

An amazing new back lot featuring New York and LA Downtown Street with interiors and an alley fully furnished production office space and suite style executive offices, along with post-production space dedicated to providing an attentive and personally tailored experience for all their clients. Santa Clarita Studios offers rentals and services to meet any need and budget.

Find them at santaclaritastudios.com. We are continuing [00:01:00] our Project Greenlight series where we talk to the cast and crew of Gray Matter and get the real behind the scenes of the behind the scenes. We are dropping new episodes every day. So if you wanna start at the beginning, go back and start with episode 401.

In this episode, I sat down with cinematographer Andrew Jeric and gaffer Matt Hadley. These guys are going to tell how they did so much with so little to work with budget wise. Basically, technology is your friend. Okay, have a listen. Okay. So I am here today with Andrew Jeric and Matt Hadley.

Raised in Richmond, Virginia, Andrew began crafting his visual skills early in life as a portrait and landscape photographer. His passion for photographic storytelling and love of cinema led him to USC's School of Cinematic Arts where he received his MFA in production with an emphasis on directing in cinematography. Andrew has a passion for delving into the human experience in highly original and technically innovative ways that ultimately engage the viewer's hearts and minds on the deepest of levels.

Telling evocative stories that shine lights on matters that greatly impact the human condition is one of the great [00:02:00] goals of his life. I mean, how great of a paragraph is that in a bio. Since his tenure at USC, he has photographed seven feature films, worked on dozens of commercials for highly priced clients, and traveled the globe working on various stories that bend multiple mediums and genres amongst his accolades.

Andrews the winner of the ASC Heritage Award, the Thomas B. Bush Award for Excellence as cinematography. Best directors at USC's First Look Film Festival and the John Houston Award for Excellence in Directing is also a member of the IA Local 600. Welcome, Andrew.

Andrew Jeric: Wow. Thank you so much. Sounds weird hearing that out loud. Especially since I wrote it.

Julie Harris Oliver: You didn't say it back out loud? Now tell me, what was your very first job in this business and how did you get it?

Andrew Jeric: Oh man. My first job, I was, I knew that question was coming and I honestly, I can't remember. Uh, and, and what I mean by that, I've kind of shot anything and everything under the sun once I, you know, decided to enter [00:03:00] filmmaking.

So I started with documentaries, one man band stuff. I did local news and I don't know exactly what the first thing was. So I guess the best way maybe to talk is like the first biggest formidable project with my first feature film called Papa. And it was, it's supposed to be a small little non-union feature with my friend as director.

And somehow it, in pre-production, it blew up from a under $1 million film to then an $8 million union film between China and us. And it was a co-production. We ended up with a-list actors from China, and it was just, we ended up with like almost a 30 day shoot. We shot in Nevada, LA, everywhere, under the sun.

It was amazing. It was a hell of an experience. Yeah. So I learned, that's the one I would probably pinpoint is just like, and thrown in and just like, all right. Yeah, do I love this? Am I good at this? What the hell am I doing? You know, and, and it turns out, yeah, I loved it all and I, I actually did know what I'm doing, but I also learned how to kind of trust your crew on that project [00:04:00] because before that I was a lot of times like a one man band.

And, uh, that's probably the biggest growth thing is if you wanna be a professional, you gotta learn how to work with other people. So-

Julie Harris Oliver: Usually just go the other direction. That's amazing that that happened. Was your first job as a cinematographer, you didn't work your way up?

Andrew Jeric: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I, I went to, weirdly enough, I kind of went to two film schools.

So I, I went to UC Santa Cruz. I'm from Richmond, Virginia. That's where like, kind of grew up most of my life and stuff. And I knew I wanted to do film. I was just a big film buff, love movie making and stuff. And I didn't know how to get into it. So I applied to a program in, uh, California. I got into UC Santa Cruz.

I started as a psychology major and uh, a film major. And then through the process I just focused on film. And at that point you just kind of did everything yourself, you know, so the director, editor, sound cinematographer and everything. Uh, then once I finished, I came down to LA. I did some bts, some PAing, some, you know, all that kind of stuff.

And for about a year I. You know, [00:05:00] kind of floundered and didn't know what to do. And then I applied to USC grad school cuz that was always something I had heard was like the place to go. You know, George Lucas and all these like great people. And, uh, I, I feel like with UC Santa Cruz, it was a great experience but it was a very lonely experience and I was kind of looking forward to cuz they, they kind of emphasized just you as the artist.

Well, I was looking for a place where I could meet peers and work on projects with other people and stuff. And so I applied to USC and immediately you kind of get like a, a family right off the bat for a better, you know, lack of a better phrase, I guess. You just, you meet a lot of like-minded people.

People are very serious. And for about three years I just. You know, kind of grinded there, slept there. My whole life was there, you know, and, and I met some incredible people and, and people I still work with to this day. So-

Julie Harris Oliver: I mean, some people call it family, some people call it USC Mafia. Tomato. Tomato.

Andrew Jeric: Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Harris Oliver: Alright, I wanna bring, uh, Matt into this. So, Matt Hadley is a gaffer who started his career gaffing small commercial projects in [00:06:00] Tennessee and Atlanta with friends from film school. After dropping out of college, he spent the first half of his career doing increasingly sized commercials.

Eventually he slowly started finding some movie work and in an effort to further that goal, he moved to Dallas where there were some producers that he knew and did a lot of Indie narrative. Since moving to LA he's been mostly working in the narrative space with only the occasional dip back into commercials. And he joined the IA local and started doing bigger, better union movies since then. Welcome Matt.

Matt Hadley: Hi. Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Julie Harris Oliver: Tell us about your first job and how did you get it?

Matt Hadley: Yeah, so I mean, it's like similar to Andrew where it's like, I try to think what exactly the first thing was, and I can't quite remember, but, you know, like it, like it said there basically, you know, some friends of mine from film school who all, we all kind of had different, um, approaches.

One being very DP focused, one being very directorial focused, kind of just got together as a group and started trying to get jobs from companies [00:07:00] in town there in Chattanooga, Tennessee. So we started doing kind of like these small corporate things there. Uh, the one of the early ones I remember was like, we would do, they gave out these like small business awards at the Chamber of Commerce, right?

So like, we would like film, we would film little like video profiles on different local companies for the Chamber of Commerce. And uh, that was good cuz we would, we would film a bunch of different things very quickly and also like meet a bunch of like companies in town and then they might, would come and hire us for stuff.

So it was that, it was this very like small group of like fresh out of college filmmakers just doing kind of like, documentary style commercial work that was like really popular at the time in the commercial world.

Julie Harris Oliver: Great. And then what about when you moved to LA?

Matt Hadley: Uh, yeah, I mean, it was kind of just the natural process of things.

You know, like I kind of always figured I would move to la like a lot of my friends from school went there and have lived there and have been working [00:08:00] there, but I was kind of, I was kind of on a different path. But my time that I spent in Texas, basically, you know, I would do a lot of Andy movies and they would bring DPs from LA to shoot those movies.

So after a few years of, of living there, it got to the point where most of my DP connections, Andrew being one of them, were LA DPs that I had met through these projects where they were either like coming through town and happened to, you know, so I would build these relationships and then they would go back to Los Angeles and it would be hard for us to work together.

And so it got to a point where I had enough connections that I, I felt confident in my ability to, to move that direction.

Julie Harris Oliver: Okay, great. So that answers my next question, which is, had you worked together before?

Matt Hadley: Yeah. Yeah. This was our third, uh, I think it's just our third.

Andrew Jeric: Yeah. Yeah. It feels like we've worked together a lot.

Matt Hadley: We communicate very well and we get along really great, which is awesome. But yeah, only three projects, but they've been in- intense three projects. . Yeah. Yeah. .

Julie Harris Oliver: [00:09:00] So speaking of intense, when you got this call and heard it was Project Greenlight in addition to the film, and you'd have, you'd be in the reality show, what, what made you take this job?

Andrew Jeric: Uh, yeah, it's great question. Well, you know, like I knew about it beforehand cause I shot the short that Meko used to help win, you know, the competition. So it was a no-brainer for me. I, I did it cuz Meko's a really dear friend, it's her first feature. I've known her for seven, eight years now. And we've done a lot of little projects together, mostly just for fun.

Uh, we're very like-minded. And so when she won, I was so proud of her and she asked me to be a part of it. And, uh, you know, that, that led to a longer journey on whether or not I could do it and stuff like that. We could talk about that. But, you know, I just jumped at the opportunity. I knew the Project Greenlight and we can get into it like the, the effect Project Greenlight has on your psyche and, you know, like we could, we could break that down for sure, but, It was a no-brainer for me.

I get to work with one of my close friends who I love dearly, and I get to support her on her first film, and, and she's an incredible [00:10:00] director, talented, and, uh, you know, sky's the limit for her. So it was ha- I was happy to be there for her. And it was easy, easy choice. It was,

Julie Harris Oliver: of course you're gonna do that. Mm-hmm. Matt,

Matt Hadley: how about you?

H kind of similar, right? Like, I mean, it was, it was a, a good size project and it was Andrew, so like I wanted to do it cuz I tend to prioritize working with people I know cuz you know it's gonna be a good situation, you know, regardless. And, and I, I guess I thought it was gonna be really interesting.

Like it would def, I knew it would be one of the most unique movie experiences I'd ever have because how weird is it to have a bunch of people follow you around filming you all the time? So I figured, you know, why not figure out what it was going to be like, at least, you know. But I think it's, it's a lot of the same though, where in a sense like as you tie people to project, you know, like it ties more people down the line.

Cuz I knew Andrew was gonna be on it and so I wanted to do it to like, support him and make sure that he could do something. Awesome.

Julie Harris Oliver: So then let's talk about how weird was it? Did it [00:11:00] change how you interacted or how you did your job? Added this layer? Were you self-conscious about it? How did it, how did it change how you work?

Andrew Jeric: Yeah, all of the above, right? I mean, it's like it made you second guess everything you were saying. Thinking it. I was thinking about it. You know, it's been a couple months since we wrapped production, but it was one of the more emotionally draining, physically is fine. I'm a night owl. It was mostly all night shoots.

We can talk about that in a bit too, but the, it was just the emotional aspect of it, of having to, you always felt like you're walking on eggshells. And I believe, like I'm a big communicator. I think that's the only way to succeed on a super dynamic environment, such as like a film set. You just have to make sure everybody knows what's going on and just communicate and everybody feels free to communicate there concerns, et cetera.

But usually you want to shorthand, you just want to cut through the shit, you know? But like with cameras, like two inches from your face, it really makes you like, is this the right thing to say? Am I saying something stupid? Is this gonna come back and haunt me? [00:12:00] You know, we're all still young in our careers and it's like, you know, it, it.

All this stuff weighs on you. And, you know, uh, the kind of BTSin on is that we get lav'd up the second we parked our car, and then they don't take it off till pretty much 10 seconds till we get back in our car to drive home. So for 12 to 14, sometimes 15 hours, you're being recorded the entire time. And it's just, you know, and you always have to remind yourself that you're being recorded.

And in that moment it just, it's an extra level that your mind has to go through, through your process. Okay, I need to talk to Matt, but I need to like be direct with him. He needs to be a direct with me, but. You know, is this kosher to say this right at this moment? And it's, and honestly, we're all good people.

We didn't say anything crazy, I don't think. I mean, the jury's still out, but it just seems like it. It definitely made communicating that much harder and just drained. It was just a draining. It was like our battery was just naturally just being ticked away knowing that we're being [00:13:00] recorded every second of every day.

Yeah, it

Julie Harris Oliver: sounds exhausting. Matt was a similar for you?

Matt Hadley: For you? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's hard not to kind of be constantly aware of it. It's like he said, you just check yourself before you talk a lot and, and in a sense, a lot of things about filmmaking are not an exact science. So like, it, it's hard to feel like you want to just sit around and kind of like hash a thing out in front of cameras when like, maybe you want to put off the image that you just know the answer to everything.

But like, it's never really like that. So it's like, I don't know. I feel like there's this pressure to do things well, especially because like in any like filmmaking scenario, the last one who's like ready becomes the center of attention, right? Like, innately, if your department is not ready and everybody's waiting for you.

EVerybody else is like super aware of it. And then add in that there's gonna be cameras there that are like gonna be right there. It's just, it, I think it added for me a level of stress to make sure that like my department looked like they knew what they were doing, right? Because like, we're like [00:14:00] representing the local and you know, like we're representing the, the, the crew base there.

So it's like you don't want to end up on TV and look like you don't know what you're doing. So, yeah, I don't know. I think it was just something that you always, and you'd like. And also just like he said, it's like you say something and then you're like, ah, man, are they like, did they just record that? And I'm like standing off like way off to the side of set.

Like just being aware of like that, there's always like, oh yeah, wait, wait, wait, I'm, I'm being mic'd.

Julie Harris Oliver: Oh, I would've just got home every night and replayed everything I said all day and then had just had so much anxiety. Did you have that?

Andrew Jeric: That totally happened. I mean, self-censorship was a word that we used amongst ourselves.

We had a self-censor a lot. Yeah. And whenever we kind of broke that, because we're in the, you know, heat of the moment or whatever it would weigh on you. I mean, there was one really bad weekend I had where I just felt like Friday night, it just, you know, we, I think we were three weeks in. I was just exhausted.

Everybody was exhausted and I don't know if I made a right choice and it was all on camera, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, I went home that whole weekend, just kind of just like, [00:15:00] Banging my head against the wall, just like, man, like is this gonna come back to haunt me? Normally it wouldn't. It's just like, okay, you fix it, you move on.

You know, you try not to dwell on it cuz you, the cool thing about features is that you could kind of make a mistake and then recorrect the next day cuz it's an ongoing process, more of a marathon than a sprint. Like unlike with commercials or music videos. But on this it just feels like every moment might come back to haunt you

So you know that I remember that weekend and that was, that was a rough weekend and I just made a choice that I can't keep working that way and I just need to let go and who cares? Just enjoy the process. There was another week left and just have fun with it. So, And then that changed. It was just, it's just a mental shift that, hey, whatever, just be myself and have fun with it.

Julie Harris Oliver: It's ultimately you've no control over the edit.

Andrew Jeric: So who knows how and, and honestly who knows? Like Matt not, might not even be in it. I might not be in it. You know? You don't know. Or Matt might be the villain of the show. We don't know. Or I might, we have no idea how this is gonna turn out and we have no control over it. And one of the little side back stories was just how hard it was [00:16:00] to crew up on this project. It was one of the hardest projects I've ever had to do. And I'm so thankful for Matt. He was kind of just like, yeah, I'm down. You know? But because of that, because of Project Greenlight, I mean, people were already, it was already in their head before they even joined the project, you know?

And they're just like, nah, it's not worth the stress. No, I don't, I don't know how they're gonna represent me. Uh, you know, and, and so I was losing ACs, grips, all it just, you name it, it was, it was, it was a very complicated show to crew up for me. Wow. Tough.

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. So, shifting a little bit, what sort of challenges did you have to overcome for the film of it all that may or may not end up in the show?

We don't know at this point was gonna be in the show, but what are some of the challenges you had to figure out how to overcome?

Andrew Jeric: Just, uh, part of the PGL or the movie or, uh?

Julie Harris Oliver: Part of the movie?

Andrew Jeric: Honestly, the movie, you know, production, our schedule was tough. Like on the movie side of it, say PGL didn't exist for this project.

We just made the movie as is. It was just gonna be hard shooting. I mean, it was almost 18 days at night. Mm-hmm. , you know, [00:17:00] regardless whether or not we had day scenes, whatever. It just, the way the schedule worked out for many reasons. And then I think I heard rumblings that we were like 23 or 24 days, something like that originally.

And then we ended up in the 18 day spectrum, which is always difficult, especially for a genre of film. Now if you have like two people talking at a restaurant, you know, 18 days is actually not bad. But, you know, we had tons of locations, action scenes, VFX special effects, um, makeup, wardrobe changes, it, you know, it's a complicated show.

And to do that in 18 days, I mean that's always gonna be tough. And then you add Project Greenlight on top of it, it. You know, it just amplified itself. And also to be clear, Project Greenlight, they were awesome people for me. Like I work with them great. We got along, they're easy to communicate on my end.

But they're big. They're big. And they had a big footprint I think, um, when I first joined it. And I think a lot of other people maybe felt this way, that they would be like a small documentary crew following us around. But I mean, it felt like they were like 20 to 30 deep [00:18:00] every day. I mean, when we were in production, they were six, seven cameras.

They had drones, they had all kinds of technical gadgets. I mean, they were, they were everywhere. They had to cover everybody. They had to cover everybody. Every department had, was lavved up. Um, and they were there from beginning to end and they had longer hours than we did. And, uh, you know, it didn't matter how big or small the location was, they were right there and they were right there, you know, and that,

you know, that that changes the energy. That shifts the energy, especially with the actors. And, you know, Meko's a first time director and, and that's what she signed up for for sure. That's why she got this opportunity, but I mean, for her. Wow. You know, God bless her dude. Like the Yeah. You know, at least I'm secure in what I'm doing.

That's, you know, her first film that's, that was rougher. I was glad to be there for her. And, and she had some other good friends that had her back. But I mean, it's just, it took an already complicated shoot and just, you know, stuck it in the blender and shook it upside down, you know? So, so

Julie Harris Oliver: how did you all [00:19:00] prep for that to do it in such a short period of time?

I imagine you had to show up on set every day knowing exactly what you were gonna

Andrew Jeric: try to do sometimes. I mean, that's where Matt came in too. Matt was huge for me. He was like the. On my side because shorthand is everything, especially when you have, don't have a lot of prep. So just so your audience, you know, may or may not be aware, but like usually on a project of this scale, you might have four weeks of prep.

But I would also have done a lot of prep with the director beforehand. I knew the script, usually a lot of sweat equity would've already gone into this project on my end. But the nature of this thing is Meko got a kind of an un uh, a solid but unfinished script that was meant to be worked on and the cameras would capture that process.

So she didn't write it. And she only got a couple weeks before I got brought on. I got brought on three weeks before production, uh, and the script was still being shifting a lot. And so, you know, there was no real sweat equity then there was just three weeks from reading a [00:20:00] script that was gonna change to then shooting it.

Um, and then I fought and they were only gonna gimme Matt, you know, cuz a budget reasons Matt was gonna come on, I think like two, three days before production. And I don't wanna waste his time and, you know, I respect him as a professional. So it's like, you know, I don't wanna take up too much of his time.

He has other projects too, so I fought really hard to bring him on for a week early and thank God, uh, our UPM was, was awesome. Uh, Cory to listen and he eventually agreed to bring on that. And that was huge for me because that shorthand just helped the process so much. I mean, you know, we, we only got a shot list about half the movie.

I mean, shot listing's a real process. You don't do that in a day. It takes about a month to do a feature film. And so we, we were in good shape, I think the first week or two, and then we started to have to rely on our, you know, stylistic bible, and our shorthand, et cetera, to kind of get through the last two weeks.

So

Matt Hadley: yeah, I think [00:21:00] it's, I mean, it is like killing it with prep is the, is the way to do it on a short schedule. And like he said, like we already did have a short prep timeline. I, I was, I was very lucky and I relied very heavily on my best boy Dave, um, kind of to, to work in tandem with me, you know, from, from the logistics side of our department.

It's like he was able to stay, you know, several steps ahead so that like we, you know, we did really good notes when we were there on the scout and he was on the scout and, and could basically be prepping things, you know, slightly ahead of where we were. Right. And in a lot of, in a lot of scenarios, normally you'd have like a rigging team who would go and do that.

And we couldn't really afford, you know, full-time rigging team. And Dave worked a lot of magic in the way. He would sneak off with people from the crew to like the next location and start getting stuff ready. And like that was, that was only possible because we happened to shoot it all in this one kind of [00:22:00] complex, right?

Like that, that was like the most massive thing for my department. Cuz I could work on sets that we weren't shooting for like two to three days, but they were only like around the block from us. Right. So like, we kind of had access to everything and if there was ever like, you know, something that we wanted to talk about, we could, like, I could go over there with, with Dave or whatever and we could talk about what we were doing and get the plan ready.

So it's like having like a really, really solid kind of, notes and logistics timeline in our, in our department is really important because like we just had to be, we had to be like way ahead of everybody else, like, like at least a day to two days ahead of everybody else to be able to keep up because our manpower was just like not there for how big of what we were doing.

Right? Like it was all night work. So like very few things were like just a couple lights or whatever. Like when you shoot night exteriors, we'd have to blanket like huge areas for us to be able to shoot in. So like, it was definitely a lot [00:23:00] of, of, of trying to like be prepared for these things before we get to it.

And most of that was spending all the, all of your time working on it. Like, like. Most weekends, I was probably spending most of my weekend time prepping for the next week, which is like unfortunate, but like a necessity at times. And like, I think better for me than like going into something feeling like I haven't thought about it and trying to do it on the fly.

Cuz we would've never been able to keep up with the pace that this movie had to go at.

Andrew Jeric: Did just add one final thing to that? It's like I have a new mantra and like it's fix it and prep. I mean this, you know, it's like prep is everything, you know, and you know, I. To Yolanda, and Jeanette did a brilliant job and with Corey every who they, by finding this incredible location that worked for like 95% of the movie.

I mean, that, that was the life safe saver of the project. I mean that if we had to jump around to different areas of LA. With lots of company [00:24:00] moves and stuff, it, it probably would've collapsed on itself. You know, it is just a very ambitious film for the resources we had. But the cool thing is like usually when you're given this like, oh, guess what, we're gonna shoot on one location.

It's kind of like that tends to fit production, not creative, but this was, you know, to benefit them. They found a place that worked for both, which is awesome. They know what they're doing. Yeah, they definitely do. They were awesome. They're great

Julie Harris Oliver: producers. I wanna hear a bit about your lighting of it all.

Cause I heard you use some kind of board. I don't know what a, that means. Tell us about that.

Andrew Jeric: Yeah.

Matt Hadley: Yeah. So a thing that has been, I think a driving, a driving factor in my success and, and the reason I get along really well with DPs is like there's been this thing going on in the lighting world where D M X is becoming very popular and wireless D M X specifically, it's basically the ability for us to control the lights remotely.

It's been around for a very long time. But up until recently, like only within the past 10 years has it become kind of [00:25:00] ubiquitous on even like smaller scale shoots. And I like years and years ago, started learning it because I thought it was going to be like this really important future thing for the lighting department.

And so because of that, we have a lot of capabilities that I think that a lot of smaller shoots or shoots of that scale wouldn't be able to pull off. Because like normally if you want to do like complex D M X work, you need to hire a lighting console programmer. And I, I can do all of that myself because I went and I learned how to do all of it.

And so, you know, a thing that that that provides me and Andrew is one we can, we can operate very quickly because it's very fast for us to. Things on the fly with lights, right? Like we can easily dim and change the colors like very quickly, you know, which is a thing that used to take a lot of time when it used to be like somebody had to go to each light to mess with it, right?

And then, you know, the other side of that is that it allows us to do a lot of effects work, which is something that has become [00:26:00] kind of a common staple for us. And, and for me in general with most of my work is that, you know, like the ability to program the lights to flicker or flash, like if you, if you look at any, any modern, like Everything Everywhere All At Once is a good example.

Um, Euphoria is like a good example where like a lot of the modern language and lighting is starting to become this thing where there's a lot of like, on camera lighting effects that are done, which was something that used to only really get done on like much higher end movies. Uh, so on this movie you'll see a lot of it, right?

There's a lot of scenarios where, from little things like, you know, being able to create a very specific color palette that we can copy to different lights, you know, and so that we can like flash different colors very quickly to decide how we want to like color a scene with the lights. And then also things where it would be like, you know, like there's a scene where there's an alarm and you know, we're [00:27:00] like chasing lights down the length of a corridor and it's, there's a lot of stuff like that that, that wouldn't have been possible if we didn't have access to this, this kind of like high level D M X work, which just happens to, happens to be kind of one of my. My specialties as a gaffer.

Andrew Jeric: Yeah. And let me add, uh, like Matt's like kind of underselling it too, his abilities because like, this is a brave new world. This stuff, this technology is a game changer for sure. And, uh, you know, me personally, like I'm somebody that believes every film should have a specific style, you know, like, but it's dictated by the story, of course.

But in the past when you didn't have this kind of resources and this technology and the people that can implement it, you know, you might not be able to, you know, like you had to kind of dumb your style down because you couldn't actually achieve what you wanted to achieve. But now you can. I mean, but to be said, and what I mean by his under underselling himself is like the stuff he was able to do on a project at this scale, I still believe you need a bigger film to be able to do what we were able to do.

And a lot of it's just Matt's abilities. [00:28:00] Uh, his knowledge with, with the tools that he has and his, and he's so fast at it. I mean, so we were able to do effects. I mean, he brought up Euphoria and Everything Everywhere. Awesome projects, awesome stories. But, you know, they're massive too. You know, like, I think.

Everything Everywhere. It's like a 30, 40 million movie and it's super ambitious, but you know, it's still a 30, 40 million project. So we were able to do stuff that's like still way outside, even now by today's standards, outside of our, uh, budget and schedule just because of disabilities, you know? So, and that's awesome for me because like now I finally get to like, I can dream more, I wanna dream more.

I don't wanna be like held down by gravity. I wanna be able to fly, you know, and it's just like, oh, this story deserves this. And now, you know, working with Matt and, and new l e d technology and all that stuff, like we're able to achieve, you know, the unachievable before. So this was unheard of even 10 years ago.

Like, to be able to do something like that on this scale, even five years ago maybe. Mm-hmm. . Can you define DMX?

Matt Hadley: DMX is a [00:29:00] protocol that lights use to communicate, to like, change the settings of lights. Right? So like it's, it started in the, the, in the like theater live world, right? Yeah. So like all like concerts and everything, like DMX has been that for all of most, like the history of like, of console lighting, right? So like it's, it's a thing that's being brought from the rock and roll world and started to use more commonly on movie sets, largely because they've made a very solid, reliable wireless system for it. It used to be that you had to run cables between all of the lights, which is, you know, a manpower issue.

And also just like software avail, like a DMX board is like super, super expensive, right? Like on the lower end, you know, $20,000 maybe for like a low end DMX console. But like things these days, there's definitely like more modern computer based solutions. And I have, I have kind of built my own custom setup that I use.[00:30:00]

It has a lot of advantages, but it lets us be really small, right? Because like the idea of like dragging a console around is really tough because it's a big thing to bring onto a location movie set and have it there every single day, right? So, you know, over the past few years I've kind of created this system that is very like compact and can, can move at the speed that like a, a low budget narrative thing moves around.

So, you know, it's essentially, it's a thing that has been around for a long time, but has, has kind of just now gotten refined to a point where it fits into the equation for these like smaller, low budget things. And it's, it is a thing that I think you'll see in some form on almost every movie these days, right?

Like a lot of 'em, you can just kind of have an iPad that lets you dim and control all of the lights, and that's like super common these days. But our setup that we were using was, you know, is Grandi a three, which is like top two. Of of [00:31:00] like DMX, that's like DMX software that's like available, right?

So like we had access to the tool set that was the same tool set that was being used on all of these other projects and these much bigger projects, but within like a smaller, more like compact and affordable picture.

Julie Harris Oliver: And you just made this part of your kit that you bring?

Matt Hadley: Yeah, it's just a thing that I drag along with me because I can't, I can't, I actually don't know how I would do a movie without it at this point.

Right. Like, it's like the idea of of having to like tell people, cuz for me, like I really love just like sitting at a monitor and, and tweaking all of your like last tweaks of a light. Like once all of your lights are set up in a space and me and Andrew can just sit there and he can be like, okay, let's go down 10 points on this one and let's go up five on that one so that you can kind of do stuff that like you wouldn't, you wouldn't do before because you didn't have the time to be doing that.

Right. And we can like, tweak things about lights in between takes or like, while they're slating and like nobody really [00:32:00] notices, right? Like it lets us be a little- we get this kind of like last level of tweaking that we can do that like, Prevent anybody else from like continuing in the process, which is, which is really nice.

Andrew Jeric: Yeah. They're never waiting on us. That's a big goal.

Julie Harris Oliver: So, so you said it was gonna be a lot faster and a lot more nuanced? It sounds like.

Matt Hadley: Very efficient. Yeah. Yes. Right. And then it's like you can try things really easy. Like we talked about, like color was really big in this movie, right? So like scenes, each scene, for the most part, Andrew had kind of like come up with a color palette that we developed for like different portions of the movie.

So we would have like four or five different color of light that was like assigned to each scene. And then once we set up all the lights, we could easily take each of those colors and try them on different lights in the scene to see how we thought they like fessed mixed together. Whereas like back in the day, we would've had to cut gels and we would've gone and put gels on all of those lights and you would have to decide that before we started rigging.

Because once you've rigged stuff, it's too [00:33:00] late to go in and then change it. But like we could just put the lights in and then sit there, change all the colors on the fly until we found the way that the pallet worked for that specific scene.

Andrew Jeric: Right. Amazing. It's awesome stuff now. Yeah.

Julie Harris Oliver: How important is a script supervisor to what you both are doing?

Andrew Jeric: Script supervisor works more closely with the director. I'd say. Um, you know, they, they're useful for me if, if we need to like, revisit something or we're unsure about something as a group or something, you know, like of where an actor might have stood on this one point or, you know, um, things like that.

But they usually work much more closely with the director working

Matt Hadley: with the actors. Yeah. My, most of my interactions with them are the, occasionally, occasionally I'll want to change something from like a different shot because it's better, like, I want this lamp to be here. Or like, blinds I think are an often thing that we tend to open and close blinds more or less, depending on camera angles.

So they'll check that with me. But especially in situations where we're going back to something we've [00:34:00] already shot, or inevitably shooting like little inserted pickups of a scene that we've already shot, they're, they're like a go-to person that I know I can go get. Like photos and stuff of that shot all the time.

Right? Like DIT, you can obviously also get to pull stuff, but like most script supes have a really quick direct line to like, oh, can you grab this, the frames from this scene so that I can see how we lit it that time so that I can recreate it really quick for these like little tight, you know, shots that a lot of the time you'll go up and pick later in your schedule, like at a studio or something.

Andrew Jeric: Yeah, they're, they're very useful for that and, and for what we do. And obviously they work with my AC team and stuff on slates and things like that. Um, but in terms of just my personal interaction with 'em, it, it tends to be fairly limited. Um, unless, yeah, like, you know, we, we have to revisit something, which happens quite a lot.

It's like, oh, we forgot this and, and then you try to do a pickup the next day or something and you just gotta remember where everything was.

Julie Harris Oliver: Okay. I heard that two, the two of you were [00:35:00] particularly kind and respectful to the script supervisor, so I was trying to figure out what is the question that'll bring that out.

Andrew Jeric: I, I don't know what, uh, her previous experiences with other DPs and Gaffers , but you know, like, I mean, are I look at myself as somebody, we're people first, you know, I mean, like, I don't like this filmmaking works well in a, in a hierarchy sense, but we shouldn't impose that power on people and treat people like shit.

I mean, that's, I don't believe in that at all. And, and so like we should enjoy the process, love working with each other as much as we can, and just treat people with respect right off the bat. And then on top of that, those are the people I hire, it's like-minded people. So I just figure, you know, I don't ever wanna hear my crew's been disrespectful to anybody else.

You know, like so, and, and they aren't. Matt's awesome like Keith, my AC's awesome. Lbs, my key group is awesome. And, and then I expect them to hire like-minded people as well. So it all just trickles down, you know? Mm-hmm. and, and so then I keep hearing, oh my team's so nice to the script supervisor and all I could think about was just like, what were these other people in past [00:36:00] projects doing to the script supervisor, you know?

And our scripty was very nice. Yeah, exactly. Our scripty, our scripty is very nice. She's, she's awesome.

Matt Hadley: So, yeah, it's interesting cuz like, I feel like in a broader sense there's maybe a lot of like, bad habit association with the way that people act on film sets and have acted on film sets throughout, like the history of movie making, right?

Like if you've ever worked with like significantly older people, like you will know that like it, it has always been kind of like a say whatever you want. No holds bard situation thing, and especially in the grip and electric department. I feel like there's this. There's this idea that like, they're always these like grumpy old men, and like that's like partially I think like, based on truth.

But I think as like young filmmakers, it's something that we need to like approach and like fix, right? Because it should not be abnormal that we are like nice and respectful to everybody. Like we're all adults and like we should be able to go like, act like adults and [00:37:00] talk to each other, like adults on film sets, which I don't think is, is necessarily the norm in the, in the grander scheme of things, you know?

And I think that's something that's like on us, right? Because like we have this opportunity to, to change things because like as a department head, I can like enforce that very strongly. And I do, like my crew knows, like they don't get to probably be the way that they get to be under this other person.

And I think it's just a thing that is, is becoming less as a problem as time goes on. But it, it is interesting. It's one of those things that like, I have like taken it upon myself. As, as like a young filmmaker to, to never, to never get caught doing. And I have, I definitely have situations where I, I know that I've been on like really rough movie projects where I, I acted in ways that I probably shouldn't have, you know?

But this movie specifically, it's like, it would've been impossible. Everybody on that crew is so nice. Like, it was like one of the nicest like peop groups of people that I've been able to work [00:38:00] with, you know? So it was like, it's really easy when everybody is just like super respectful to each other, to kind of maintain that bar.

You know? I think that was one of the things about this movie, you know, in hindsight that I really appreciate is that like, especially like with production and everybody, you know, it was just, it was super easy to communicate because everybody was very respectful of each other. Uh, and I don't think anybody was really causing problems, you know, in that sense.

Andrew Jeric: Yeah, I definitely echo the same thing. And, and let's be clear, this, that kind of a vibe on set is, is top down, right? Still. Again, I give all credit to Yolanda, Jeanette and, and their team because you don't, uh, you don't work on a project where the producers are super nice and then all of a sudden, like other department heads or scumbags or, you know, or the PA's physic-, you know, verbally abusing PAs, it just doesn't happen.

You know, it's like, it's definitely a top down thing. And, and they cultivated one of the absolutely most respectful, nicest crews I've ever worked with, for sure. And I'm not one of those [00:39:00] people that's like after every project they were the best or they were the, you know, like I know people do that stuff and I don't, uh-

Julie Harris Oliver: Sometimes you're just like, ah, it's over.

Andrew Jeric: Yeah. Oh, many, many times. Too many times. In fact, you, you, you kind of wonder like, why does it need to be that way? You know? And, and so that's why I believe you gotta lead by example. Um, believe in the golden rule, you know, just treat people how you wanna be treated and then, you know, but, you know, as a cinematographer, I have power on set, but I only have so much, you know, so it still needs to come from producers and directors and, and usually the top talent and stuff, the actors.

And it, it, it cascades down.

Julie Harris Oliver: Well, it does feel like we're in, like, we're in a cultural shift in that way, cuz you're talking about environment on set was one way for a hundred years and now there's a generation coming in that has such a different tolerance for poor treatment. Thank goodness. What do you, do you think it's just a matter of setting the tone and, and people behaving better?Or do you think it'll take more than that?

Andrew Jeric: I'm one of those people that, [00:40:00] you know, again, if everybody actually followed the golden rule, 8 billion people, 90% of the world's problems go away immediately. So I think you, you know, you gotta be lead by example, you know, and that's the very least you can do.

You know, obviously if you get more power in the industry, you can say you're a studio head or a CO of your production company, you might have more power over the situation. But when, on each project at the very bare minimum you can do is just lead by example and treat everybody with respect from, from the get-go.

And, and that, I think if it amplifies cuz people like that, you know, and then I hear it all the time. Thank you, I appreciate that. And I'm like, I don't do it for compliments or anything, I do it cuz that's just the environment I believe should be cultivated. But it's nice to hear that and I hope it carries on and people are like, oh, I remember when I was on this one set and I, and everybody was treated, it was so much better being treated with respect and now I'm going to do the same.

And you know, and I think it's just, You know, that can, um, spread like a wildfire in the best way possible. Mm-hmm.

Matt Hadley: [00:41:00] Yeah. And I think people are just less, like you said, like less likely to do things in situations where it's like that. Right? Like, cuz like in film, we're in this kind of unique position where we choose what we do, right?

Like, you choose your jobs. And I think that, you know, for me, if I end up in a situation where somebody's like, not great to work with, I'm just not gonna work with that person again. And, and while I think that's like very localized in that like, it solves a problem for me in that like, I'm building relationships with people who see things the same way that I do, I think as a whole, it's just gonna move that way because ev everybody is starting to see that like, it doesn't have to be that way and that it doesn't actually benefit anybody.

So like, people will just not hire people who are assholes, right? Like you're, you're just not gonna hire somebody if you don't wanna work with them. And that, that I think will slowly kind of like, breathe the curve, the curve out where it's like there's just not as many people who are getting, getting work because there are so many people in [00:42:00] it now who are very talented and who are very good to work with, right?

Like the pool is huge. Like the film industry's never been accessible like this, right? Like I think people used to really fear for their jobs in the film industry that like one slip up would get you fired or, or, I really just need to put up with this because it's the only way for me to like get into this industry.

But it's, I just, there's so many avenues and there's so much availability of work that like, I think it'll just be that eventually people won't be able to hire people if they want to act that way because everybody will just know.

Julie Harris Oliver: Scarcity is not our current problem.

Andrew Jeric: No, not at all. You know, and I like, I was, I blessed with a great mentor, Peter Levy, he's an ASC cinematographer and you know, he's had incredibly long and wonderful career, but a lot of our talks are like what it was like in the past and stuff.

And yeah, it was, you know, department heads were like more like magic men back in the day. The town pool was so much smaller [00:43:00] and people didn't know how they did the things they did. And so they, there was a higher tolerance for uh, if somebody did have an attitude problem and they were in charge, but they knew how to do something nobody else knew how to do.

And so it was just like, people just put up with that. Cause at the end of the day, they just wanted, you know, they wanted the project to be great or they want to make money. And th-, that's not the way it is anymore. Like, like Matt said, the, the talent pool is just astronomical. And, and if you, if there's a will, there's a way, I mean, there's no.

That may secrets anymore. It's all you. You know, you can go to film schools, you can watch how movies are made, read books, you can be on set. I mean, there's a million ways to learn how just about anything's done now. So, you know, there's no reason to bring that kind of negative attitude and that's such a positive shift in, in the industry.

So I applaud that a hundred percent. So much of our life's spent on set. So who the hell wants to be? You know? And I've heard those stories too from like from different key grips and stuff like that. They would, you know, cuz everybody works with different people so they're like, oh you know, thank you for communicating to me. My last boss would just, you know, throw things at me. And so I'm just like, [00:44:00] what world? We ? Like how is that, that's insane to me. You know?

Julie Harris Oliver: How is that allowed to go on for a hundred years?

Andrew Jeric: It's insane. It's insane. It's just cuz accountability. Right? And they were protected. They were protected class of. You know, they're obviously very talented at their job, but they, you know, kind of created little, you know, little dictators, little narcissistic power trip and big dictators and, you know, that's just not the case anymore. Thankfully.

At least it's starting, you know? I mean, I'm sure they still exist. I know they do, but hopefully, like Matt said, they're gonna get, get weed out eventually.

Julie Harris Oliver: Alright. You're giving us hope for the future.

Andrew Jeric: Yeah. Yeah, me too. Well, it's our future too. You know? We, it's just, you know. Yeah.

Julie Harris Oliver: Uh, tell me your favorite memory from Gray Matter.

Matt Hadley: I don't know, anything specific. I really, I enjoyed, uh, I enjoyed the studio day because we did stuff that was a little bit way outside of my norm, right. With the sitcom lighting, which was really interesting. And then, you know, we got to do kind of [00:45:00] some interesting soft box overhead stuff, which was really fun.

I think that was one of my, just like in general, as far as like locations that we did, it was the biggest one for my department, but it was also the day that I probably enjoyed lighting the most.

Julie Harris Oliver: So there's a day where you shot a sitcom inside the movie?

Andrew Jeric: Mm-hmm. ? Yeah. Well, there was a, there's what we call the psychic hell.

Scene or, you know, uh, segment in the film where our main protagonist, she's like going through all her memories, um, but it's kind of like a warped version of her memories and stuff. And she loves sitcoms. That was like her escape from her everyday life. And now she actually enters the sitcom, but we had to shoot the real sitcom that she watches on TV and then an alternate version, a nightmarish version where she actually enters the sitcom.

And that was a lot of fun for sure. That was, you know, cause it was just, we actually used Tungston lights for that. We recreated the vibe of an actual, like 80 sitcom and stuff. And again, doing this kind of stuff on a budget and, and schedule is not something we get a to do a lot. So it was, it was a lot of fun and I think we were really [00:46:00] successful at it.

And from what I heard, everybody was super happy with that day and, and the results are awesome.

Julie Harris Oliver: So, well, from my, what I've been hearing, everyone's saying that's, that's the most fun day.

Andrew Jeric: You all. It was fun. I mean, it's fun, you know, and, and you could tell the actors had a lot of fun too, cuz they got to, you know, really step outside their characters and stuff and just, yeah, it, it was, it was good times, you know.

But I guess my, my favorite memory was honestly, my favorite moment is always the drive home on the last day. And it's hard to explain. It's since I put so much pressure on myself to, you know, just give each project 110% that I, while I do enjoy it, I have a lot of fun on set. I'm also very serious on set and I, you know, again, it's a marathon, so you're like, it's hard to be like, I did great on Tuesday when, you know, you have a big obstacle or a big challenge on Wednesday, you know, so, On this film, I was particularly proud of myself and my work and my team on the last day at the drive home, I was like, ah, you know, like, job well done. Yeah, job well done. Especially cuz we were driving home at like nine in the [00:47:00] morning or so , so it was like, our location was at Pomona, California, so it was about an hour from proper from LA And so, you know, it was a nice calm drive home, you know, and just the sun's coming up and everything and just kind of like, like, ah, yeah, job well done.

It's good. It, it only lasts for about a week, that feeling. But you gotta, you gotta enjoy it. You gotta enjoy it.

Julie Harris Oliver: What did you have on the radio at that moment? Did you have a soundtrack for this?

Andrew Jeric: Uh, yeah, I had the wind. That's how I do. Yeah. Just I lower the car windows and just blow dead

Matt Hadley: silent. I can't believe this is over.

It's funny cause I don't, you know, I didn't let it, it's hard to wanna say, uh, when it was over was the best part, but like, he's super Right, right. Like it's, you can't really let yourself celebrate anything because you always know there's something like that, you're like, oh, well this was the thing that I was most worried about.

But then, you know, next week something comes up that, that is like a big problem and you have to solve it or whatever. Like, being able to be like, I don't have to worry about anything and I get to just like sleep without, like, worrying about anything is, is [00:48:00] the best feeling in the world because it's like for, I think that movies tend to be very all consuming compared to a lot of filmmaking and, and like, I think similarly to him, it's like literally, it'll be the first time since I officially agree to do the project that I'm not worried about something like every other second between that. In the back of my head, I'm thinking about something that has to do with that movie, right? Like it's, you can't ever really let it go.

Julie Harris Oliver: so you can release the mental load for a minute.

Andrew Jeric: Yeah. You know, and we, we, we did what we wanted to set out to do. I mean, there's other reasons you might celebrate the last day of a shoot, you know, especially some of the more insane ones. But this one, it just like, you felt like, wow, you know, you really, you put yourself in danger with the document or you put yourself out there, I should say not danger, but you put yourself out there in a way that you might not have been comfortable with. So, you know, you deserve credit for that. But then also we, I do believe we had, you know, excelled at telling the story we wanted to tell. So it was like a win-win. And those, you don't always get those, [00:49:00] you know, on every project. Sometimes you, you leave a project with regret or something, or you didn't get along with, you know, the, this production team or whatever.

But on this one, it was just like, everybody was super cool. We put ourselves outside our comfortable zone, our comfort zone. So we did, you know, we should be proud of ourselves for that. And then on top of that, like we actually made the movie we set out to make, you know, so like, it was, it was a unique, like really, really good feeling.

So that drive home was special for sure. So,

Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. And what a vulnerable thing to do to be under the microscope as you do it.

Andrew Jeric: Yeah.

Julie Harris Oliver: And we'll see how it all turns out.

Andrew Jeric: Yeah-

Matt Hadley: We'll see. I mean, we'll see how that turns out.

Andrew Jeric: Yeah. The jury's out on that one.

Julie Harris Oliver: That's funny.

Andrew Jeric: I, I hear like two episodes will be kind of dedicated to the production, but obviously I'll be involved in the prep of it and, and Matt had influence on prep too, so we don't know how much we're gonna be in this thing. But yeah, the jury's out on it.

Julie Harris Oliver: Well, uh, it's gonna be way more fun for me to watch it now. Having met all of you, I will, I will be tuning.

Andrew Jeric: Well, well, let me know how it goes. Cause I honestly, I [00:50:00] probably will not, I've thought about this a lot. I don't think I'll be tuning in only cuz I just, like, I experienced it. I put myself out there. I'm proud of that. I'm proud of everybody. Onward and upward. You know, . Yeah. I wanna keep that memory. Exactly. I don't wanna be like, oh, that's what they used. Oh, that's the moment they show.

Julie Harris Oliver: All right. Well that brings us to a martini shot cuz although this has felt like five minutes, it's been an hour. So you all know what a martini shot is. I'm gonna ask you the last question of, of the podcast. So my question is, what advice would you have for someone who is just getting in and wants to do what you do?

Andrew Jeric: Uh, it's a big one. Yeah, please. Cause I got something. Go thing.

Matt Hadley: Um, I feel like, like if, if as, as like general, if you're trying to get into the film industry, like very definitely remember that every job is like your job interview for your next job. It's like super basic, but it's really important, right?

Like that is like if you getting more, like you, you don't really like go search for work in the film industry. You, you leave an impression that [00:51:00] gets you recommended for more work. That's like the most common way. So like, definitely always like always be trying to come across as the person who's like working really hard and, and trying to like learn about, like if you don't understand a thing, ask about it and learn it. Right? Like, I think that a lot of people might be nervous to say, I don't know what that thing that you just asked for is, or, I don't know how to do that. Ask. It's, it's, it's different now than it used to be. And people want to teach you and if you show that you wanna learn, they will take that time, you know, to teach you.

And specifically if you're interested in the electrical department, learn about DMX. It is, it is so important. And it is a thing that, like on every scale of movie, you, you kind of always end up needing a few people on your crew who understand the ins and outs of like, setting up the network. And if, if you're the electrician who knows what's best you're gonna be put in a good situation where you [00:52:00] can be solving these problems. You'll be closer to the gaffer. It's just, it's, it's super important. It's like the most important thing in the electric department right now. So take some time to, to learn about like DMX networking because it will help you go like very, very far, I feel like in this, in this industry right now.

Andrew Jeric: Yeah, I mean that, that is all absolutely great advice. I mean, the other thing is just like knowing what's the most important stuff in this industry. One is I think people miss, think talent's number one. That's not true. It's, it's perseverance a hundred percent. Like you, you have to believe in yourself.

Define goals for yourself, or the industry will define 'em for you. So like, you know, if you wanna get into narrative, you know, like what kind of narrative, like features, tv, mini-series. And then on top of that, what kind of genres do you like? Do you like dramas? Do you like horror films, et cetera. It's, it's too vague to just be like, I want to tell, make movies or something.

Really define it for yourself. Or you might find yourself in the industry, but there's a way that it's like a river. It's got a current and it'll shift you in a way you might, you know, you might end up for 10 [00:53:00] years and you didn't realize how you got there. So, you know, as early as you can define what you truly love about the industry and then use that as your North Star.

Absolutely. It's a people industry first. People ask me all the time, like, cause I went to USC, I got my master's there. They're like, Hey, You know, was it awesome? Was it worth it? Should I go to film school? And that's a personal choice. You do not have to go to film school to succeed in this industry. But what going to a school like USC does is it gives you that family or that mafia or whatever you might wanna call it.

It just gives you a network, cuz it's a people industry first and foremost. I mean, I would say 90, 95% of my jobs for the first five to seven years right outta school were all just my peers who were just working together. And that was super invaluable. You know? Now my network's branched out beyond that.

But you get this beautiful experience of just having like-minded people to work with right off the bat, you know? So that's kind of what film school's most useful for. So if you feel like you don't have anybody, you're moving to LA and you don't know anybody at all, you know, film school might be a good option for you.

But like I said, there's no, you don't have to. So just [00:54:00] define your goals, you know, know it's a people industry and, and all that entails, and then, uh, just never give up, you know, that those are kind of the most basic, strong advice and, you know, trust your your voice. You know, like that. And the other thing, at least when it comes to cinematography, to be specific, I see this a lot.

Roger Deacons has talked about that. I completely agree with him. He's, he's a master. He's like, he's like, people convince beautiful imagery with great cinematography. You know, know that we are storytellers first and foremost. We're not here just to make cool shots. Now, if you wanna make cool shots, more power to you, you know, but like, we're here to tell a whole story and the journey, the psycho-, you know, capture the visual, psychological journey of the themes and the protagonists and the antagonists and their journeys from beginning to end.

And that's what we're, that's what we do, you know? And everything else that entails, but like just doing a cool shot is not what we do, you know? So know that cinematography, some of the best cinematography is ugly cinematography because that's what the story demanded. And so just free your mind of these concepts that it needs to be like this visual, [00:55:00] you know, beautiful, whatever each and every time.

It doesn't, you know, sometimes you need to be muddy and dirty and gritty. Other times you need to be glossy and sexy and colorful. It's just, it, it's all comes from what's the needs of the story. So, Thank you you. Yeah. Thank you so much. Well, thanks for having us. Yeah,

Julie Harris Oliver: Thank you. Andrew Jeric and Matt Hadley. Thanks for joining catch a Break.

Andrew Jeric: Awesome. Well thank you so much, Julie. It was a pleasure for having us.

Julie Harris Oliver: This has been Catch a Break Project Greenlight edition. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. I'd like to thank our guests, Andrew Jeric and Matt Hadley. And special thanks to crewvie.com, a dynamic platform that connects people to productions worldwide.

Please check out our website at catch a break podcast.com and follow us on all the social media. Catch A Break is produced in partnership with CatchLight Studios and the other 50%. Our theme music mantra for a struggling artist was composed by Andrew Jocelyn. Thanks for listening, and be sure to go watch Project Greenlight and then come check us out for the behind the scenes of the behind the [00:56:00] scenes.

Next up we talk with the production department, Corey Slov, Miranda Pacheco, and Fiona Wiederman. How do you do your job while sharing a production office with the docu crew that is following you, also with no budget and during a Covid surge? In the meantime, I hope this helps you to catch a break.